Redressing the School/Pupil Power Balance

[Chil1234]

School 'no touch' rules to be scrapped

Removing some of the paranoia surrounding the teacher/pupil relationship and giving teaching staff more confidence that they will be supported has to be a good thing.

Yes this definitely needs looking at. If my son hurts himself I'd like to think a teacher could give a reassurring cuddle. Likewise if he was being obnoxious/badly behaved and refused to leave a classroom when asked I would have no qualms about a teacher physically removing him.

There is nothing but stupid schools being defensive. There is no legal basis for ' no touching ' and any good school would provide physical care as appropriate.

There has been provision for restraint of pupils for over a decade now.

Another Tory distraction. They are so full of shit.

Completely agree with Wahwah

There has never been a no touch rule. Just Daily Mail hysteria pretending there was one.

There have to be boundaries IMO.

My son with ASD was repeatedly restrained by teachers when he lashed out in frustration (and at times, even when he didn't), despite my specific instruction that to do so when he was angry would undoubtedly make matters worse. They ignored my requests and I ended up having to remove him. It's taken two years to repair the damage.

I totally agree that young children (and even older ones) should be reassured when they're upset and if that involves touching then so be it. I also agree that appropriate measures should be taken against aggressive and wilfully disruptive pupils, but my concern lies with children like my son whose behaviour is part of a disability who are physically manhandled because school staff haven't the knowledge or understanding to manage a situation in a more disability-friendly way.

This is a problem that can't be resolved by a 'one size fits all' approach.

I would be interested to know which schools, and how many, have a 'no touching' rule. ime this is pretty much hysterical nonsense.
(I am a teacher btw)

TheShriekingharpy - those schools who do have that, are wankers.

That's not the government's fault. If schools are so lazy and clueless that they can't be bothered to negotiate appropriate touching but just opt out of it altogether, then you can't blame that on the government or anyone else - it'll be the HT and the governors who are to blame.

They've probably got stupid uniform policies too.

Our school has a not touching policy....if a pupil wishes to up and walk out a teacher cannot prevent them from doing so...a teacher cannot stop a fight (even if they are feeling brave!)...

Our school is fitted with high gates in various locations around the school grounds controlled from the main office and by swipe cards to prevent students just walking out of school. The main doors are automatic controlled from the school reception.

This is all due to the no touch policy.

There is no central policy that says that teachers can't cuddle children and htere never has been. Any school that has such a policy has made it up for themselves.

The link talks mainly about physical restraint -which as far as I know teachers can already do if the circumstances warrant it. The cuddling issue is a complete red herring.

Whole thing is utter Tory cobblers.

Frankly, my main concern is this seguing from our being 'allowed' to physically intervene with unruly students, to our being expected to do so.

Dh teaches control & restraint (he works with adults with challenging needs): you have to know what you're doing - it's a disaster waiting to happen if physical restraint becomes routinely acceptable.

Teachers should NOT, on the whole, be physically preventing children from walking out of classrooms, or wading in to break up fights.

& as seeker says, there is no central policy prohibiting us from restraining kids if the (exceptional) circumstances actually warrant it.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, & it's just a silly Tory distraction, as wahwah says.

And how do people feel about giving teachers more support when accusations are made by pupils? The current procedures appear to work on the basis that the children would never lie or exaggerate and the teacher involved is then sent home pending an investigation, often for months at a time. Careers are blighted with the 'no smoke without fire' effect.

"Careers are blighted with the 'no smoke without fire' effect."

Are they? In real life or just in Daily Mail land?

But shrieking, no one has told schools they have to have this policy.

Lazy HT's and governors have chosen it because they can't be arsed to negotiate normal human interaction.

Blame them.

I blame the progressives, which is why Gove is determined to turn things around.

Here is an example from the progressives' paper of choice, the Guardian

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2005/feb/09/schools.uk

Fortunately it is still quite rare but if the progressives were in power for another ten years, I think it would become far more prevalent. It sounds like Gove will halt the progressive tide and stop it in its tracks.

Did you actually read the article you linked to? If you had, you would find that it agreed with you!

A sample quote

"What's clear is that teachers are taking a hands-off approach: they're sacrificing their judgment and common sense about how best to relate to children. And they're abdicating their responsibility as carers - to fix scraped knees, or help children go to the toilet - as well as blocking up normal, spontaneous interaction"

And again

:Perhaps the best way ahead would be the simplest: individual teachers trying to just act normally around kids. But on a grander scale, maybe what's needed is this: for adults to learn to trust one another again"

I'm sure you'll be delighted that the "Progressive's Paper" agrees with you!

I have an example. A few years ago I worked in a school where a child had a nut allergy. All staff were shown how to use her Epipen if need be.
Now I work in a different school amd there is a child with a nut allergy. Staff have been told not to use the Epipen but to send a pupil to find one of the three staff members who are allowed to administer it. Madness in a situation where time is important.

I did read the article and I agree with the author. I only quoted the progressives' paper of choice, because so many progressives believe that it is all made up by the Daily Mail.

I am delighted that the Guardian agrees with me and does not follow the full madness of progressive philosophy. I am also delighted that Gove doesn't follow it and intends to stop it in its tracks. If Gove had been in power over the last 13 years, then this madness would never have arisen in the first place. But he is in power now, and for that we can be thankful.

The fact that there are "no touching" policies issued by government that school are obliged to follow IS made up by the Daily Mail (et al).
What has happened is that teachers, like many people have become victims of the panic about paedophiles stirred up by the Daily Mail (et al0 and are therefore unsure abotu what they should do, and so err on the side of caution.

And frankly, if I were a teacher, and read some of the hysterical posts that appear on Mumsnet "a man looked at my child in a funny way - should I call the police?" followed by loads of posts telling her that she shoud - I might err on the side of caution too.

I'm looking forward to next spring's annual sun cream in schools threads, as next year schools who ban their teachers from doing so will have to say it's because they don't want to, and not "no touching".

I don't think that the Daily Mail has stirred up the hysteria. I think it was the progressives. Daily Mail readers will nearly all be in agreement with conservatives like Michael Gove. They mainly believe that it was big nanny state that created the hysteria, along with health & safety and numerous other panics.

Oh, don;t be silly. When did the Guardian last run a "Paedo Seen Near Kiddies Swimming Pool" headline?

Followed by an article on page 15 about a picture of Garry Glitter on a newspaper hoarding 500 yeards from the Leisure Centre.

Followed the next day by teh same headline in the Sun - which would later turn out to be about Speedos.

As a teacher and parent I have met teachers I wouldn'nt want NEAR my DCs who get protected by councils and unions etc. The danger to DCs is not imaginary but needs to be dealt with effectively by good education colleges.

There is nothing wrong with reporting real cases.

I can't find all the numerous Daily Mail articles that show that the Daily Mail has always stood nearly alone against this tide of bossiness and nanny state thinking. But all Daily Mail readers will know it, because they are nearly all against it. They nearly all support Michael Gove. They can't understand how it ever got that way. But there is an answer, and it begins with the letter 'p'.

Here are some articles of the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph showing what is behind this kind of thinking.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-498892/The-Jobsworth--Judy-Show-Puppeteer-takes-revenge-making-health-safety-officer-villain-story.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/philipjohnston/3903535/Christmas-is-a-dangerous-business-according-to-Labour.html

But those bad old days are over, a new broom has swept things clean, the progressives have been defeated, and the Tories will turn things around.

Agree totally with wahwah and seeker. There never was such a policy promoted by the government.

If some (few) individual schools chose to be hysterical it was usually down to either hysterical parent or hysterical head: I ony know of one such school, the head is definitely bonkers- but she has survived years of a Tory council and will no doubt survive a Tory government too.

None of the state schools my children have ever attended have ever had a non-touch rule; have frequently seen teachers with arms round pupils and know pupils have been restrained when needed.

It if was a general rule, you'd expect more schools to have known about it.