Redressing the School/Pupil Power Balance

[Chil1234]

School 'no touch' rules to be scrapped

Removing some of the paranoia surrounding the teacher/pupil relationship and giving teaching staff more confidence that they will be supported has to be a good thing.

There is no 'side of teachers' BTW- to polarise the issue in this way implies that children are on one side and teachers on the other... Did you mean to do that?

well you know more about it. But here is just one of many similar stories from the Daily Mail. Maybe they are lying to the public? I don't know.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1183855/Teachers-assault-hell-All-I-did-touch-pupil-arm--I-barred-school.html

It would be interesting to hear teachers' experiences to see if these things occur or if they are overblown by the media.

yes I did mean mean that. I mean being on the side of teachers against false accusations made by some pupils. I think teachers need to be supported by the authorities, just as the police are supported by authorities. I'm not politically correct. I think the spokeswoman for the Childrens' Rights Alliance is wrong and I think her comment about "dangerous move" is wrong.

Well, both really- no one newspaper will report the unbiased truth. I think you're expecting too much from the DM if you believe it does this.

They are not lying about the incident, but nor is the incident indicative of the state of Britain's schools, even though the emotive language used encourages that notion.

I saw a teacher punch a child in the face. The child's parents did not complain. That story is unlikely to ever get reported by any paper.

Well the story about the teacher who hit the child with the anvil was reported. I'm not in favour of teachers hitting pupils. If it is proved, then I would want tough sentences for them. Maybe we will eventually have to have cameras in every class to see who was telling the truth? That will be a sad day if it happens.

OK Claig, here's a RL teacher experience. It's probably not as exciting as the DM, though.

On one occasion, in ten year's teaching, a girl spread rumours that I had manhandled her - 'slammed her against a wall'.

She hadn't made an actual complaint, presumably because she knew full well that her story was nonsense.

I went to the Head & objected to the fact that this lass was broadcasting this story, & asked that she be invited to make an official complaint. I also asked the Head to review the CCTV footage; the incident had taken place during a corridor fracas.

(She'd been yelling encouragement at the two boys fighting; I'd taken her by the arm & guided her away. My hand was lightly holding her arm above the elbow & she could've pulled free at anytime).

& that was it. She agreed with the Head that she had been 'exaggerating', he made it clear to her that she was to lay off with the wild stories.

Other than that, I've fended off the odd half-hearted punch or airborne item of furniture. I have all the 'power' I need to deal with students, thanks.

No, we just need mandatory training for every teacher.

You can't just make stuff up and say how terrible it would be, claig

It would be a sad day if all children came to school in spacesuits and teachers had to deliver the lesson through a pipe attached to their helmets whilst playing the banjo.

good to hear that RavenUK.

"It would be a sad day if all children came to school in spacesuits and teachers had to deliver the lesson through a pipe attached to their helmets whilst playing the banjo."

that sounds like one of those OFSTED space weeks that we have discussed in the past on MN. Sounds right up OFSTED's street. I'm surprised it isn't happening more often. In fact if I were to google the Daily Mail archive, I'd probably find just such a day.

I think if Gove really wanted to help teachers he would not be making massive future cuts to education. he wouldn't be spending out on new schools and would be instead improving current ones...the list is plentiful. simple.

Why he is tinkering about on this stuff I don't know. I remember reading once he thought if all children wore a tie to school then their behaviour would be better. I also read that he wants more ex-army to teach children in order to sort out behaviour. Seems to me he actually doesn't know much about how children learn at all.

All i can say is poor kids.

I'm actually begging you to find it

He has to make cuts because that's what Cameron has told him to do. But you are right, maybe he is tinkering with this to deflect from the cuts. I have seen reports about this ex-army and police presence in schools, and that is a worrying trend, that is also being reported in the States.

I worked in a mainstream school which had a full time police officer. In the end he was asked by the head to leave, as he kept pinning kids up against walls and using pain compliance techniques when kids looked at him the wrong way. He maced a student in the playground

Interestingly, the number of physical interventions decreased once he left.

Why was he introduced? Who decided that that was a good idea?

It was a borough wide initiative from the Met IIRC- there had been some gang activity in other schools across the borough and it was thought that a police presence would be a way of maintaining order and strengthening links with the community. It wasn't. It had the opposite effect and failed in every school in the borough it was introduced in. Many teenagers have a deep distrust of the police and suddenly (wrongly) perceived school staff as being on the same 'side' as the police, ie 'the enemy'. It did a lot of damage to previously strong relationships between students and staff.

I thought it might possibly have something to do with Labour

Police drafted into a quarter of schools

I'm not surprised it had a bad effect. I'm amazed anybody would have thought any different.

"The Safer Schools Partnership was introduced by David Blunkett, the former Home Secretary, in 2002."

Blunkett also thought you could spot future villains at nursery school, and wanted a database set up for them.

claig, I don't have a political agenda here. The Safer Schools Partnership (thanks for reminder ) was a terrible idea.

It does not follow that Gove's initiatives are great.

Bloody hell tethers, that sounds like the script for a sit com, not something that actually happened.

My sister's teaches restraint (she's a nurse and works with some challenging people) and talks like you - about how restraint should be the very last option and almost all incidents could have been avoided. She's also lost 50% hearing in one ear after being hit by a patient - patient was aggravated thanks to stupid ruddy senior managers inflicting building work on her unit without any consideration for the residents.

(Her trust also has a forensic mental health unit with a worrying habit of discharging violent people...)

oh, and one for claig - back in the days of Mrs T I was once in a school where kids used to throw chairs across the classroom at one particular teacher. Poor woman. Her lessons really were a riot. No-one did anything yet all the other teachers MUST have known. Thankfully I moved to another school PDQ but have often wondered whether the poor woman got out of there without a breakdown.

I agree, I hope Gove doesn't continue with Labour's plans.

That's not what I said.

Have just seen this thread. My children's primary school has a "no touching" policy. It's absolutely ridiculous. No one is allowed to comfort anyone else. I'm sure it's because the HT is worried about possibly being sued and thinks it's easier if he just says that no one at all can touch anyone else.

Also, I can't remember the exact incident, but about 7 years ago there was an incident with DS1 (same school, diff HT) and he was hurt. The HT was explaining to me what had happened. I somehow ended up saying that I had absolutely no intention whatsoever of suing the school. Accidents happen. That's what all these kinds of policies lead to.

OTOH when I was at school in about Y2 we had some completely nutty known to the school supply teacher and she used to hit children around the head for no reason and also hit them on the back of the leg with a ruler. If more modern rules stop that then I'm all for them.

there are schools in the States that have a similar policy and the kids are not even allowed to high-five. Amazing.

It really isn't any good just linking to Daily Mail stories - they may very will be true, but when you can only get one side of the story, there is no way of knowing what's going on. Particularly as the LEA/Council/school concerned it sertricted to a bland "the situation is being investigated" statement.

Stop channelling Peter Hitchin and come up with some solid facts.