How would you answer this English question?

[steppemum]

So
DON'T read anyone else's answer first.
DON'T explain your answer for now, just answer.
DON'T overthink it, go with what your first response would be.

This is a comprehension passgae based on a poem. The first verse of the poem is:

Hamelin's Town's in Brunswick
By famous Hanover city;
The river Weser deep and wide,
Washes its wall on the southern side;

The question is:

In relation to the river, Hamelin lies:
a) to the north
b) to the south
c) to the west
d) to the east

So which answer would you choose? I'll be back in a couple of hours to explain why I'm asking and see what people put.

Thank you!!

well I can ask my handful of students this year, but my point was that this happens every year with all my students, and I can't go back and ask them all!

Embarrassed to admit I got it wrong. I think it was as you say a case of skim reading for the answer so can easily see how children would do that. But fascinating that it's universal for that particular question.

@mewkins I remember a question-I can't remember what the question was-that required then to know 3 possible uses of the word "sage". That made me cross too!

north

Oh it is a particular idiosyncrasy of the 11+ that they LOVE words with more than one meaning.
sage
content
wind
invalid
refuse
row
bow
present

etc etc

My first thought was to the north, but I've a friend who lives in Höxter and we've sat overlooking the river Weser on more than one occasion and it doesn't flow near Hannover! So it must be lapping Hamelin's walls.

well, the point is not what the actual river does, but what do you understand from the poem extract.
Even the 11+ wouldn't expect them to know local German geography!

No. And it's quite random that I do!
I'll try it on my teen when I get home and report back. He's been to Höxter too but couldn't point to it on a map so there's no unfair advantage.

Ok thats driving me nuts. I can only see 2 meanings Wise and herb, what is the 3rd?

Perhaps the reason kids struggle is because the correct answer requires you to know that cities have walls and rivers don’t.

If you didn’t know that, you might well think that ‘washes its wall’ somehow referred to the wall of the river. That would place the river to the north of the town (and the town to the south of the river).

Personally, I think they probably read ‘washes its walls on the southern side’ as the river’s walls not the town’s. I had to read it a couple of times to conclude north.

Aside - of course river walls are a man made concept and unnatural but common these days.

Hamelin lies to the north.

sage green is a colour

@reesewithoutaspoon Herb, wise, a wise person (who an I kidding? A wise man🤣) and a colour. The question only required 3 of the 4....

I have a 14 year old off sick today, so I just asked him. He said North. He's probably average ability for English, but high ability maths, has used maps regularly in various activities.

Don't know if that helps at all!

I thought north, before reading any other replies.

I think the answer is that the age they "get it" is at whatever age they have acquired enough exam technique to realise that an English comprehension question might require you to use knowledge from a different subject. I doubt they will have come across "trick questions" before at 11, whereas adults have plenty of experience of them.

I know that verbal reasoning tests often require general knowledge but they will have found that out from the first time they answered a verbal reasoning question. They have probably never come across an English question that requires maths/geography knowledge in the 6/7 years they have been learning English at school. For that matter, nor any subject question that requires them to apply knowledge from another subject.

I bet if you asked them the question and told that that it was a riddle or put the question in a verbal reasoning test, maybe even gave it to them as a maths/geography question, some of them would get it right.

I said south because I didn't read the question properly. I knew it had to be wrong because otherwise you wouldn't be asking. But I still didn't read the question properly. I kept reading the extract...

This made me laugh @PastTheGin 😅

Omg thank you. I was wracking my brains. colour never even entered my head.

I’d have said to the north.

North

I think this is a really good point.

I was a school governor at a primary school for 5+ years and one of the big concerns was about our Y6 children's ability to use critical thinking. In other words, taking information that they'd learned in another capacity, and being able to recognise when it might be relevant elsewhere, and then being able to apply it. And that's exactly what this question requires - and it's something children really struggle with because it's quite a sophisticated set of skills.

Recognising how to draw on and use existing wider knowledge which maybe isn't obviously linked is a skill that lots of children struggle to develop at that age. I know it's something that our school was really focussing on when I left. I think historically there's been perhaps too much emphasis on simply learning facts rather than showing how knowledge is flexible.

I have two autistic DC, and my DS in particular has a phenomenal memory. He's also very quick at maths. But he really struggles to see the different ways he can use those skills outside what he's been "taught" - he doesn't have the flexibility to apply his knowledge in different ways.

I haven't read anything bar the opening OP. I would say a) North

The town is on the Northern bank of the river (it lies to the North).