Is home-edding for us??

[noodle6]

I have been considering home-ed for the past 2 or 3 years now, but I think I just don't have the confidence to do it.

At first I thought it would be good to make a decision based on what my daughter's feelings were towards school, but I've found that asking a 7 year old about school and getting answers out of them is hard. For instance, some days she'd tell me she hated school because none of her "friends" wanted to play with her and she got picked on and she didn't like the subject her teacher was doing (she likes writing, but she didn't like the topic her teacher wanted her to write about, which was about "polar regions", and unfortunately for the entire term their class was just focusing on "polar regions" so she didn't have much of a choice). Other days she tells me she loves school - seemed like it was because everything went well for her, she had nice playtimes and friends that day, and the teachers taught something she found interesting. Whenever I ask her would you miss school if I took you out of school and decided to educate you at home, she'd say "no" every single time. At her age I don't think her friendships in school are stable. From what she says, her friends come and go like the weather, and during school holidays if I ask her "do you miss school?" or "do you miss your friends" she'd always say no.

Saying that, she is a skinny, pale, bespectacled, shy, quiet child whose favourite pursuits are clearly writing, drawing and art. Without encouragement from anyone, she would happily get out her paper and pencils/crayons/pens and sit at the table after coming home from school or during holidays, and write and draw furtively for hours on end all by herself at the table. She is 7 but she has the reading level of a 10 or 11 year old and frequently uses the local library for books to borrow home. She loves the library. In short I'd say she would probably fit the stereotypical "nerd" or "weird arty type"... well, she does often complain to me that she gets teased by these 2 same boys in her class every other day or so. They also like to chase after her at PE and break times just so they can hit her on the head (and whoever happens to be her "friend" that day). Teasing her is routine. Basically it ranges from saying "her eyes are full of shit and that's why she wears spectacles", to saying "she farts and poos all day" to bordering on the racist "hahaha your mum isn't white.." type of "jokes", which my daughter finds quite annoying sometimes, but luckily she does have a sense of humour about the situation and laughs along with them most times.

She doesn't hate everything about school though. She seems to like the teachers but she doesn't think of her friends in school as people she couldn't live with.

My DH isn't very supportive of home-edding. Basically he's saying that he doesn't think my personality is suitable for it. I don't have a very calm, cool personality. I do get very passionate about things, especially in subjects that are important to me. He thinks school is the best thing. But I feel that on the principle level, there are so many things about school I just don't agree with - the one-size-fits-all approach to education and growing up I found it hard to fit in with school myself. I don't think school is necessary in order for one to get to Uni, because of personal experience. And I think since my daughter isn't very attached to her friends in school she really wouldn't miss much in terms of social life since she isn't the sort who likes having lots of friends anyway and already has friends of her own outside of school (granted its a really small bunch - 2 good girl friends outside of school). I'm at this point now where the more I hear my daughter tell me about her experience in school, the more frustrated I feel.

I'm not exactly a very confident parent. I am always doubting myself and whether what I want for my children is the right thing for them. I see other parents just make decisions for their children without needing to "consult" with them and their children seem to do whatever it is their parents decide for them, unlike me, I often feel the need to "consult" with my children and find out what they want/not want and then make my decisions from there... but granted they are young, sometimes I wonder if the approach I'm using is really useful.

Does anyone have any advice for me and whether home-edding is the right thing for me? I've tried googling for any advice on the Internet about how to decide if home-edding is the right thing for you as parent, but all I get is whether its the right thing for your child - and I'm pretty sure my daughter would take to it very well. Also I am a very shy person and don't have a big network of friends with children with whom I can provide my daughter with frequent opportunities to socialise, and we don't live near family so family support is out. There seems to be a good few parents home-edding in our community, and there are monthly meet-ups. However I've heard of one parent leaving the group because he has witnessed his young son being bullied by a gang of older home-edded boys at the meet-up.

My daughter is already attending ballet classes on Saturdays and she enjoys it. I'm not sure if that counts as a true socialising event since its not like they have play-time during the one hour class.
She tried joining one local Brownies group but sadly decided to stop going after 3 times as she failed to make a single friend or fit herself into the group and she found it extremely boring and awkward as a result. I have to admit I am sometimes worried for her that she will always have this problem of not being able to fit in/socialise. Come to think of it, I've always had the same problem, just not as severe as my daughter's as I have always managed to get by with a few friends no matter what setting... just that I'm just not a really social person by heart and don't really have the inclination to gain lots of friends... I'm happy with the few that I consider as "true friends". This is also another worry of mine that's making me hesitant about home-edding as I'm wondering if it would just make things worse for her on the social front.

Any advice ??

Make sure you keep a copy of the letter, just in case. Did you get a receipt from the school? We did even though they were arsey a little reluctant, because we wanted proof we'd sent it. But as long as you keep a record of the date you sent it in, it's their problem, not yours.

DD1's secondary school never told the LA - she was discovered later when we applied for a performance licence for her - and they told us they school were going to get a rocket! I hadn't informed the LA, wasn't my job

The only issue if the school haven't deregged you is you may still get EWO hassle. In which case just state clearly like you have that she is now deregistered from school so attendance is completely irrelevant.

I just got a reply from the head. She wrote :

"I have notified the LA of your decision, and have forwarded her details to
them. As soon as I receive confirmation from the LA, I will remove her name from
our role and will notify you accordingly of this.
Whilst I respect your right to home-school her, it is with a degree of sadness
that we note your decision. She is making good progress in school and is
especially benefitting from the social opportunities presented by school. It is
a huge decision to remove a child from the school environment and I would like
to extend an invitation to discuss this matter further. Please contact the
school if you wish to arrangement an appointment."

Does this mean my daughter is not yet deregged? And that I have to make an
appointment to see the head? I'm not really keen on that.

I don't think you have to do anything. She says she has notified the authorities and when they confirm they have the details, she will write and let you know. That won't take that long.

In the meantime she is extending an invitation to you to come for a chat. You don't ahve to take her up. The way things have been, I just wouldn't respond if you are not still wondering whether school or HE is the right thing.

I agree with ZZZenAgain.

The head is actually in breach of the regulations. She should remove your DD immediately rather than waiting for the LA. There is no element of asking permission unless it is a special school.

She is inviting you to discuss things further. You can decline the invitation (by ignoring it).

do you think they'd keep bugging you if you ignore the letter? would a reply saying "thanks but no thanks, we have made an informed decision to HE" be a good idea? (I don't know, no experience of this!)

I would write again and hand deliver it tomorrow saying that their delay in removing your child from the register means that she is traunting and you are breaking the law and that, by law (you'll have to look it up), they should be removing her as soon as you ask, not when the LA have given their permission. It is not up to the LA, but up to you, as her parent.

The school are in breach of the law, not you. The school have to remove her name immediately, not wait for the LA to respond!

I personally wouldn't have any more dealings with the school, since you will only be drawn into debates that are pointless now.

As you are going to be known by the LA anyway, you could phone them and say the head isn't removing her name from the register. Our LA get very cross with schools who don't follow the letter of the law properly!

On the other hand, you may just want to do nothing. You are not truanting, because you have followed the law. The school are the ones in the wrong and now you have a letter as proof! So I would probably just let it lie.

could you forward a copy of the letter you wrote to the school to the LA, noting the date at which it was sent to the school saying that the school has been notified of her deregistration, has acknowledge receipt of the letter and yet has not removed her from the register? Just that.

actually I can't help thinking how right you were to remove her from that particular school under that particular head. She seems to be handling this one quite badly all round.

Hi noodle6, sorry you're having such a rough time withdrawing your DD. I'm sure it's no comfort but it's a great experience for the rest of us who will be more sure of where we stand/what to expect when the time comes! Thanks for sharing. Also demonstrates the fab support of this board

I would not go and see the head. It doesn't sound like it would be very productive. She doesn't sound at all clued up about EHE (note the socialisation chesnut!) and probably wouldn't take on board anything positive you said about it. I guess you could write, if you wanted to try and improve things for other kids who might be in your daughter's situation, about where the school could have done things better, and then state that you want nothing further to do with them. But given the attitude of the head when you did try and talk with her that might be a waste of time as well

I might take the opportunity to go and see the head simply because you never know what life holds in the future, and it would be good to be on better terms with someone in your community - also because checking out the dereg issue would be more pleasantly done face to face (I'm a bit tbh at the idea of throwing legal threats around in a letter at this stage, but bow to others' better knowledge of official procedures). But really, there's no need for you to see her.

The head sounds like the kind of person who believes a child needs above all to do plenty of whatever they dislike most tbh. God there are so many of them.

have things settled down noodle?

It's not about throwing legal threats around, though maktaitai, but about showing that you know the law. Being face to face can be very intimidating, particularly as we are socialised to think teachers are in authority to us and most adults (not all) carry that feeling into adulthood. Same with health care professionals. It can be very difficult to challenge someone when they're telling you they think you're wrong in person.

Hi all, sorry for the long wait. I've finally gotten a letter from the school head saying that she has taken DD off the school register as of 14th June. However, the local authority has also sent me a letter and some forms. The covering letter is worded quite ambiguously, I think. It says "We have been informed by the school that you wish to educate your daughter otherwise than at school. As you will be aware, the local authority is legally required to monitor the education you are providing and my purpose in writing this letter is to ask you to complete the enclosed form to enable us to do this. Once we have received details an officer will contact you to arrange an initial meeting to allow this statutory monitoring to take place. The usual but not the only way that monitoring is carried out, is for an officer to arrange to visit you at home to discuss progress... A number of people do prefer to come to the education offices for this discussion and other suitable venues, such as the local library and one stop shops ... the important point is that children's services are able to make sure that DD is receiving an appropriate education and have the opportunity to monitor progress.

Many people find it helpful to have an indication of what we will be discussing and I enclose a copy of the form the officer will be using to record the visit. You are not required to follow the National Curriculum and there may be parts of this form which are not relevant to you so please do not worry if some parts are blank or you choose not to use this at all. I look forward to hearing form you in the near future."

I had a look through the forms and on the form titled "Quality of education at home", on point 3 it states "Date of last visit by an officer to judge education :..." and on point 9 "Judgements of the child's attainment and progress" and on point 10 "Overall judgement on the effectiveness of the provision", and point 11 "Recommendations", and at the bottom "Next visit recommended after 3 / 6 / 12 months"

Okay it can seem quite innocent if I look at it as if they were not going to push you to send your child back to school and were just offering help and recommendations to make you a better home-educator... but my strong feeling is that this just sounds a bit like inviting a stranger over to judge us!

I'm curious as to what benefits can such a meeting offer to our family and whether I should meet up after all. Personally I think I can gain a lot of information from the internet and from other homeschooling families that I meet in my local area so I'm really not that keen on meeting up unless it can provide me some kind of benefit that I couldn't otherwise get myself.

If I don't wish to meet up (and I know its perfectly in my right to do so, as the local authority has kindly enclosed an attachment stating clearly the Duty of the Local Authority on homeschooling and in it it says very clearly that you don't have to meet up or even submit evidence of work even if its been requested, but the catch seems to be that since the authority has to "be satisfied that parents are providing a suitable education", how are they going to be satisfied that this is taking place unless they either meet up and/or see evidence of work???

Rachel

Oh, your LA aren't bad at all - some LAs try to pretend they have the right to visit.

OK. My advice would be that you write back saying you are a little confused by their claim to have a legal duty to monitor the education, since the 2007 Home Education Guidelines for Local authorities say

(paragraph 2.7) ?Local authorities have no statutory duties in relation to monitoring the quality of home education on a routine basis.?

In fact Graham Stewart, recently elected chairman of the Children, Schools and Families Select Committee, has just confirmed this in his response to Ofsted?s Report on Home Education.

?Under section 436A of the Education Act 1996, inserted by the Education and Inspections Act 2006, local authorities have a duty to identify children who are not receiving a suitable education in their area, so far as it is practical to do so. As the 2007 Elective Home Education Guidelines for Local Authorities make clear, however, ?local authorities have no statutory duties in relation to monitoring the quality of home education on a routine basis? and are only required to intervene if it appears that parents are not providing a suitable education.?

See cnes4education.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/education-select-committees-chairmans-statement-on-ho me-education-report/

And then I would say something about how you will be settling into HE with your child over the summer and that, if they would like information about how that is progressing on a one-off basis in the Autumn, in order to reassure themselves that a suitable education is taking place, then please would they get in touch with you then.

Once you've satisdfied them once, by written evidence or a meeting - whichever suits you best - they will have no business bothering you again, and the online HE community will help you write suitably bolshy emails if you decide not to have anything further to do with them!

"We have been informed by the school that you wish to educate your daughter otherwise than at school."

You have obviously been misled by the school. I have withdrawn my DD and have been educating her at home since 14 June.

"As you will be aware, the local authority is legally required to monitor the education you are providing"

That is news to me. Please tell me where in law that duty is laid on the LA.

"and my purpose in writing this letter is to ask you to complete the enclosed form to enable us to do this."

How will the form enable this? You already have my name and address and are, therefore, in possession of all the information you need to write to me.

"Once we have received details an officer will contact you to arrange an initial meeting to allow this statutory monitoring to take place."

The DCFS (now DfE) guidelines say that monitoring is not a statutory duty. Please clear up my confusion by telling me the statute that applies.

"... the important point is that children's services are able to make sure that DD is receiving an appropriate education and have the opportunity to monitor progress."

Under Education Act 1996 s437, you have a duty to act if there is an appearance of failure to provide an education that complies with s7 of the same act. If you have any reason to believe that I am failing in my duty to provide my DD with an education suitable to her a, a and a, please supply me with details and I will answer your concerns.

"Many people find it helpful to have an indication of what we will be discussing and I enclose a copy of the form the officer will be using to record the visit."

I do not require a visit from, or a meeting with, one of your officers. The education I am providing for my daughter does not fit onto these forms and it would detract from her education if I were to spend time attempting to complete these forms.

Case law has determined that it is reasonable for a family to take some time to establish home education. As I withdrew DD on 14 June, we are taking a summer holiday and will start to home educate in earnest on 1 September. I will be in a position to answer any further written enquiries after 1 November. Please do not attempt to contact me by telephone. I prefer to communicate in writing.

since the authority has to "be satisfied that parents are providing a suitable education",
how are they going to be satisfied that this is taking place unless they either meet up and/or see
evidence of work???

They do not have to be satisfied. S437 is deliberately worded the other way round - if they are not satisfied, then they should do something. It is analogous to the child welfare provisions - if someone tells SS that you are not feeding your child, SS have a duty to ask you about it. However, if there is no reason to think there is a problem, there is no duty on SS to go looking for one.

@ SDeuchars :
I get the feeling that the LEA is really after an Ed Phil from me, in order to satisfy themselves that the children are indeed being educated. I think I might really have to get down to writing one out. I've just read the description of what an Ed Phil might contain on the EO site, but still have doubts as to whether mine would come out adequate!

I'll certainly put in a covering letter with the Ed Phil which will politely question why they said they had a "statutory duty to monitor my educational provision".

@ Ommmward : From what I've heard anyway, some of the senior staff in the LEA in charge of home-ed are quite supportive of home-ed actually, so hopefully I'll be okay! Just hope that all my letters to them are worded correctly!

Seriously, noodle6, you are quite within your rights to say that you want until October to sort yourself out. It is true that things are likely to change by then (after, as well, but you will have at least some idea of what you are doing by then).

I sent my LA an Ed Phil in the form of a letter on one sheet of A4. I am happy to share it. Ian Dowty (ex-home-educating barrister) says that they should not ask for "evidence" unless there is a failure (s437) but normally they don't understand that bit and go straight to asking for evidence. Case law (Donaldson in Phillips v Brown) says that it makes sense to answer such enquiries otherwise that may give an appearance of failure.

Ian also says that evidence consists of three things:

• an Ed Phil (why you are doing what you are doing, e.g. to get 16 GCSEs by 15yo, to enable your DC to learn in a way more suited, etc. - it is better not to be too specific as it will be the measure of the efficiency of the education and you may change over time);
• a statement of provision (what you are doing, e.g. cooking, painting, reading, playing an instrument, swimming, etc. - when you start to think of your whole life as education, rather than what happense between 9 and 3 it is amazing what is on the list);
• a list of resources (what you use, e.g. books, computer, TV, DVDs, local library, park, kitchen).

It really does not have to be very long or detailed. Mine was retrospective ("over the last year, DD has done ...") so as not to be setting up expectations that are then fulfilled if things change - that is another good reason for not doing one until November. Anything you write now will be speculative.

Oh, and you are likely to find that they don't do anything with it over the summer. Once the schools are on hols, they spend time sorting out the stuff that they don't have time to do in term time. If you submit one now, you may not get an answer until September. They also tend to expect us to go with school terms, so it is not unreasonable for them to wait until the autumnn to get something.

Agree with SDeuchars. I really wouldn't start writing ANYTHING for them except a "sod off until the Autumn" letter at this point. THen you can spend the summer settling in with your child, and begin to get a sense of what you educational approach might be, what works for your family, what doesn't. I might be gently drafting an Ed Phil in my mind from SEptember, and get it written out in October, so that if/when they get in touch, you have it ready to roll.

And please remember to thoroughly deschool yourselves over the next few months, yeah? There's serious recovery to be done from the schooling mind set for anyone who comes out of it.

how's your DD doing, noodle?

Yes I think a letter will be in order, asking for a 6 month adjustment period before submitting an Ed Phil.

Feeling a bit wary of writing an Ed Phil because I just don't want to get it wrong... but my hubby says if they come back with some sort of reply saying it isn't good enough, etc. etc. we will take it from there... in any case, with me and my hubby not very good in face-to-face arguments with people like that, we have decided to go the correspondence route instead of meeting up with the authorities, even if it means the additional stress of having to come up with an Ed Phil and facing whatever possible negative responses they might put to us.

I've seen some Ed Phil samples online and they look rather wordy and substantial, much more jargon and eduspeak than I can muster at the moment. I feel like I know so little now. I've just ordered Terri Dowty's book but am wondering if I should go ordering another book just to familiarise myself with all these eduspeak jargon so I can write up a more "professional" sounding Ed Phil in the end... or if its fine just "being myself" and speaking in plain English.

The local home-ed group is lovely and have offered a lot of help and advice for me so I do feel a bit more confident approaching this.

My DD appears to be happy being homeschooled. She's smiling a lot, and seems to be getting more confident by the day. I was a bit concerned that she was putting on a front, that she'd miss school, and asked her last night if she wanted to go back, and she said a very firm no. So everything appears to be fine. I think we'd still need that 6 months adjustment period before deciding on a proper Ed Phil. Already me and hubby are thinking that perhaps we wouldn't be comfortable with autonomous after all and would be happier going semi-autonomous (or can that also be called "eclectic homeschooling"?? I just found that term online somewhere!)