HE - Where do you start and some other questions

[mama2moo]

So, I am considering HE my 2 dd's. Dd1 is 2yo and dd2 is only 3mo but the thought of sending them to school fills me with dread.

As I have a lot of time to choose what to do I would love to get some info from people who do it.

Questions -

Do you enjoy it?
Is it expensive?
How do you make sure your child still mixes with other children?
How did you convince your dh/dp if they werent too sure?

Any tips etc?

I think for me my reason is quite selfish. I dont want my girls going to a school and being bullied or mixing with the wrong crowd (schools in our area are quite rough). Also, I love being with them and would miss and worry about to the point that I am already in a state about it. But also, I love the idea of them having one on one teaching and that I will play a massive part in their learning.

Thanks.

Most of the time I love HE. Like any parent I have bad days!!

It's as expensive as you make it! We follow quite a structured route and use a variety of resources. However, I try and sell what I've finished with and try to buy secondhand where possible. I tend to buy a lot of reference books from a '£2' bookshop in town. I've found they are particularly good for history. Having said all that, I don't have the expense of school dinners/packed lunches, uniform, PE kit, school trips.

They do lots of activities:
all go to an HE book club once a month and we meet up with 2 other families for French and Spanish once a week. One of the other mums also teaches my 3 to play the piano!! We also sign them up for 6 sessions of climbing every now and then.

DS1 (12) does ballet; ballroom/latin; Scouts; church-based activity; church music group; young people's group at church on Sundays.
DS2 (10) does ballet; tap-dancing; Cubs; church-based activity; church music group; Sunday school.
DD (8) does ballet; tap-dancing; ballroom/latin; Cubs; church-based activity; church music group; Sunday school.

They are never in!! They do dance competitions and shows; go camping with Cubs/Scouts (in fact the boys are off to France in the summer on a Scout camp).

DH didn't need much persuading! So can't really give you any feedback on that one!

Thank you Tinuviel

Its good that your dc do a lot of activities with other children which is a worry of mine. And, I know dp wants our girls to socialise IYSWIM.

Can I ask why you chose HE?

Hi there!

Do I enjoy it?
I love it! It's tiring sometimes....I don't get quite the time for myself I did when they were at school (youngest has been out 3 years and eldest 2) but I'd never want to go back to sending them to school, for many, many reasons. It's enriched our lives in so many ways - I think my life would be quite empty without it now.

Is it expensive?
I'd say it can be as cheap or expensive as you make it. We know people who hire tutors for everything and it must be costing them a small fortune! We also know people who do it on an absolute shoestring. I guess we're somewhere in between.

On the plus side, there's none of the associated school costs - and even a state school can end up costing a fortune to send your child to. Uniform is relatively cheap at primary if you're lucky, but gets pricey once you hit secondary (it cost nearly £200 to get my daughter just one of each item). So you save there. My youngest in particular seems to go around in tatty old hand me downs lovely clothes friends have given her, so our clothing costs are pretty much nil without school. Another huge saving is packed lunches. I don't know why it should be so much cheaper to feed a child at home at lunchtime, but it is. I think you have to buy stuff specially for packed lunches, whereas at home you can do beans on toast or soup and it's much cheaper. Over the week, month, year, I find the saving on that really adds up. Then, schools constantly ask for money (and I mean constantly). When I had two of them at primary, school swimming alone was the best part of £100 a term, then there were trips, visits by people to the school, charity days etc. I used to despair of affording it, and until you've had a child in school, you don't quite realise what it's like.

On the downside, you tend to have to travel a bit to meet up with people, so transport costs can mount up. And we've ended up spending more on activities such as skating/ drama groups/ singing just because we are around in the day and we can - though that's certainly not everyone. Plus (a very long way off for you) you have to fund public exams yourself.

How do you make sure your child mixes with other children?
This is the very least of our worries! It's the one everyone assumes will be a problem but the very one that isn't! There is so much going on in our area we could be with people every waking hour of every day. The difficult bit is finding enough quiet time! I belong to the local home ed group, a facebook group that arranges meetups, and we have a group of home ed children we meet at the ice rink. Plus there's all the other stuff like ballet where they meet schooled children. DD2 is way more sociable with way more friends than she ever had at school.

How do you convince DP?
I was lucky in that my OH was very supportive from the word go. I had some pretty unsupportive family and friends, mind you, but they've come round since seeing the girls thrive and since learning more about it. I'd say thats the key - get lots of literature to read and go and meet home educators now. Most groups have loads going on for preschoolers and if they become your friends and your child's friends, it will all seem much more normal to DH as he gets to see what it is all about.

Any tips?

1. Don't rush out to buy loads and loads of equipment. I way overspent on stuff we never used at the start - and still have a tendency to do so! You need much less than you think.

1. Don't compare your child with schooled children. Home educated children do things in their own time and will rarely follow a model that looks like school. Most home educated children, in my experience, will be way, way ahead of schooled children in some areas and maybe quite behind in others. My younger daughter, who is 10, is astounding on science and maths (well into secondary level) but her handwriting and spelling would make a school teacher wonder what I have been doing with her all these years. I know these things will come good because I have seen it in others, and because home educated children learn what they love and learn what they need. So my biggest tip would be, relax and enjoy the ride!

Thank you. Thats really good know that you enjoy it so much.

My other worry is that Im not great with some areas of maths/history - If there are areas you arent great with do you struggle?

Not really because you learn so much as you go.

My eldest is taking Biology GCSE this week - I never did Biology at school! Yet together, with no tutors, we have managed to get to GCSE standard. Children often take in more when you are working it out together than when you know all the answers. I'm sure other people will come on here and say the same.

The only things I really cannot do are practical things like art that I am completely rubbish at. But there are so many activites going on in the home ed group that I just send the girls to all the things where I know they will benefit from stuff I cannot teach them.

For instance, there is a maths group on a Thursday which lots of children go to, but we don't because we're doing fine on our own in maths. However, there's an art group meets a couple of times a month and we always do that one because I'm rubbish at it!

Good point about learning together.

Dp is good at art. I am rubbish! I can barely draw Peppa Pig!

What websites do you use for books etc?

Do you enjoy it? We haven't formally started yet since DD is 4 but the little we are doing is very enjoyable watching her grow and develop.

Is it expensive?
It can be as expensive or inexpensive as you make it. There are many online places that offer free resources and ideas.
The library, charity shops, ebay or Amazon for books makes that part pretty cheap too.
Arts and crafts/ cooking lessons/ Science/ Nature studies can usually be done with what's around you in the home and outside in the local woods or park.

How do you make sure your child still mixes with other children?
Clubs like Rainbows and scouts or the.
If you have playgroups that are a bit more alternative parenting style can often provide the opportunity to find other families who HE or children go to Steiner schools as they often only do 1/2 days until half way through primary school.
But there are many HE yahoo groups or even local meet ups.
I'm of the opinion that schools are rather anti-social, how can it be natural to only spend all day with children born within 6-10 months of yourself and live within a 1-2 mile radius compared to a HE child who may mix with children of all ages from all over the region in which they live in.

How did you convince your dh/dp if they weren't too sure?
I focused on the positives such as a wider more in depth curriculum with our children developing at their own speed. Keeping our family values intact without outside pressure.

Also listen to his fears and try to find solutions to them that your both happy with.
My DH was mostly concerned with social issues and exams. Once I showed him there are more HE families around than he thinks, and that our children can not only do normal exams but start OU courses at 14 he relaxed and became excited about HE.

I home ed, but I would advise a bit of caution here, given your first reason...

your dcs are very young and, when they're tiny, I think you tend to see Bigger Kids and find them huuuuge and noisy and altogether obnoxious. As your dcs grow up you might find your view changes.

My dcs went to school and I took them out because I wanted them to grow like weeds and at their own pace, not to be squeezed to fit some academic model. Above all I wanted them to have fun.

All of us love HE, but I find that being in school with its very diverse mix of kids is the thing I miss the most

(the dcs don't though. A while ago we were talking about the benefits and otherwise of HE. I asked them if they missed playtime. They looked at me as if I was stark staring mad, and said "noooooooooh!" in unison )

If I were you, though, I'd make sure I looked very carefully at all the options. You might find your kids love school- some of them get it, ime, and some of them don't. And you've got plenty of time to think it over!

ps I am a mama 2 moo, too!

Hello - MrsWobbleTheWaitress here in disguise!

Just marking my place so I can come and write a really long response tomorrow afternoon. Too tired to now

fwiw (and this is one of my Things, so please ignore if it's not yours)- I think home edding girls is a particularly good idea if you want to keep them out of that sort of "girls don't/can't do that, only boys ride bikes, which do you like best, pink or purple" fluffy bunny girl culture you can get in schools. I don't think this is anything to do with schools themselves- just a phenomenon you get when lots of little girls (and boys?) are in close proximity all day!

I think it can hold girls back- and I think this was the first year that girls were outperformed by boys? now I've got no idea where I've got that from, what subjects it referred to or what age group, so am going off to google it

Why HE? That's a tricky one because there are so many reasons. I'm a secondary teacher 2 days a week and I see what school does to some children. Many thrive, others do not.

DS1 flexi-schooled for 2 years but it didn't work out (unsupportive new head, very anti year 1 teacher). I don't like the National Curriculum; I don't like the pressure they put on small children to perform (they are not seals or dogs!); I don't like that many children feel so pressured to grow up - I want DD to be a little girl because at 8 she is one.

I don't really like the way I am supposed to teach - I get round it to an extent but I don't think we teach foreign languages very effectively and I think current teaching methods don't help young people develop into confident linguists.

What I do like is spending time with my children and helping them learn things; helping them develop; having fun.

Thanks all.

My other reason for thinking about is that dd1 will be 4 in June and will be young for her school year.

I googled HE groups last night and was surprised that this is one in my town. That has made me more determinded to find out more and convince dp!

I told him last night that I am looking into it and he thought I was joking.

Also, I would love another baby in a few years - Have any of you had another child whilst home educating? Did it have much impact?

What do you do about holidays? I guess you can work with you or go on outings that incorporate learning?

Im getting really excited about it now. I figure if I have 2 years until dd1 is 4 years I can really get a good understanding of what to do and start getting bits and bobs ready.

I agree with waht everyone else has said. I am almost finished with EHE - my two are 18 and almost 16 and have been EHE from birth.

Looking back, I wouldn't change the basic decision (although there are things I'd do differently now I know - waiting for grandchildren to do it properly, LOL).

Do you enjoy it?

Yes. Still.

Is it expensive?

Like others, I spent too much in the early years on stuff that I thought we needed and then didn't use. I'd go for Just-In-Time purchasing - if you want to use it NOW, buy it; otherwise, file the fact of its existence away in your head for future.

During primary years, we bought minimal clothes (still do! and none of them are "special" for weekdays). We paid for swimming, drama and kids' clubs - but we'd have done that, anyway, even if they'd been in school. We also bought craft materials. They started instrumental lessons at 11 and 10 (if I had my time over, I'd do more with music at younger ages) but, again, we'd have had to pay even if they were in school.

At secondary age, the big expense is getting qualifications. Some people use school at that point. Others do GCSEs at home, however, EHEers have the freedom to choose only to do the qualifications they need. For example, most colleges seem to accept people onto A-level courses with five good GCSEs, so people can choose only to do the five required. My DD has a conditional offer for university in October. We knew she was looking at uni, so we decided to bypass GCSEs/A-levels altogether. She started doing Open University courses at almost 15, having done nothing formal up to then. In three and a half years (doing nothing like 30+ hours per week), she has gained the equivalent of 6 A-levels and it has cost almost nothing because OU courses are funded. The full story is on the home education exams website.

EHEers are great at sharing info about free and cheap things in the area. We started at our LA Saturday music school because an EHEer told us that you pay one family price and can attend as many classes as you can fit into the four hours it is open.

How do you make sure your child still mixes with other children?

Really, really not an issue! Church, kids' clubs, dance/music/drama/sports clubs, HE groups.

How did you convince your dh/dp if they weren't too sure?

Can't really comment. Mine didn't object but we have been divorced for a long time and he was not helpful with DS and late reading. To generalise, men seem to be less accepting of differences in learning than women. I'd point him in the direction of websites and books.

Any tips etc?

Don't worry! You have to work really hard to stop children educating themselves. Just do whatever seems good and fun now while your DC are so young and keep on doing it past the age of five - the children don't know that is supposed to mark a big change in learning style, so they keep on learning in the same way.

Have fun.

Do you enjoy it?

Yes - I love it and my children are adamant they don't want to go to school so I guess they enjoy it too!

Is it expensive?

Yes and no. It's as expensive as you want it to be. I am lucky because my parents and DH's parents are so supportive and buy things for the children (all girls like you ), but I'm certain that very few of those things are actually necessary and a lot of the things they help out with are things they would do whether they were in school or not - like Badgers and their dance classes.

How do you make sure your child still mixes with other children?

We first started meeting up with other parents planning to HE when DD1 was 2 (now about to turn 7) - we met once a fortnight as a group, and then also at eachother's houses etc. between times. Now we meet at least weekly at a social home ed group as well as at eachother's houses; we go on trips with other HEors too, and there are a few groups that are set up for something specific like learning French or singing or something. In addition, the two oldest girls go to Badgers once a week and dance on Saturday mornings (but there's not much socialising goes on there, of course!)

How did you convince your dh/dp if they werent too sure?

DH was convinced immediately - he hated school and had been very concerned about when the time came to send our children.

Any tips etc?

Read as much as you can in these early years and meet up with other HEors. Build a network - support is very, very important IMO because it can be quite isolating choosing a path so different to everyone else and you'll have inevitable wobbles but being with other people who've also chosen the same path can be very confidence-boosting. And of course you get to make friends!

Read about autonomous learning - I initially thought HE meant me teaching the children...I now know it doesn't at all! Books by John Holt and/or Alan Thomas all good. Read HE blogs - get a feel for how other families do it (very different for everyone!).

Thanks everyone. Its great to hear such positive people.

I emailed my sister just now - She is a teacher at a private school. I asked her to ask around to see if anyone there has done it.

Her reply - I dont like the idea. It will be cruel on the girls.

Her opinion is the same as dp's. They think the girls need to be in a school environment to socialise. They see my worries are silly (bullying, gangs etc)

Its going to be great to show dp what you have all said. I have 2 years before I have to start and am going to start looking into it all now.

Mama many teachers do not agree with HE at all for obvious reasons.
What's cruel about providing a loving caring environment for children the thrive? Sounds like a typical defensive teacher comment

Mind you there are many other fantastic reasons to HE other than bullying if your doing it to protect them on that one issue then I can see why they feel HE for you it's the best idea, it's a very full on lifestyle choice that needs a lot of dedication.
But the social issue really winds me up. Other than 15 mins in the morning and 45 mins-1 hour for lunch very little social interaction happens at school that can't be provided in a home setting.

Cruel???!!! Well, some might say it's cruel to send them to school, but that's a whole other debate!

My mum is a primary school teacher and is our greatest supporter...along with my uncle who is a secondary school teacher. Teachers who feel threatened by HE are probably shit IMO. Those who recognise how great it can be for children are the really good ones.

And FFS! The socialisation thing is such a non-issue! Sorry to be ranty. We've just come home from playing at a friend's house, where we went on the spur of the moment after our home ed group where the children played with about 20 other children of varying ages, like they do every week. For three hours. Beforehand, they'd been to French club with three other families.

There will be 20 children at my DD1's birthday party next week, all close friends who she cares about and spends a lot of time with.

School does not teach children to socialise. I'm going to go and find you a couple of articles online to share with your doubters!

Ok, here they are:

www.home-education.org.uk/socialisation.htm

home-ed.info/socialising.htm

As a secondary teacher I spend half my time with some classes trying to stop them socialising in my classroom. It is not a good environment for socialising - there are explanations to give, speaking to practise, CDs/sound files to listen to and writing to do. To do all that I need to do with them, we generally don't have much time for a chat! So saying that without school they won't socialise is nonsense!!

Thank you! I am going to print this off and show them just how good it is and how much people enjoy it.

I was a primary school teacher in my former life, so like Tinuviel, I see the good and the bad in school and have the advantage of seeing both sides. A surprisingly large number of teachers end up home educating their own children, which has to tell you something!

School is great for some children. I taught in a very rough area where some of the children were from extremely chaotic homes. For these children, school was the only place where they had any sort of routine - I would never say home education is for everybody.

But school does not suit all children. As a teacher, I always felt that if you were child average (average ability, average temperament etc), then you could probably muddle along OK at school (although it may still not be the best place). But children who are very able, or who struggle with a particular area of the curriculum, or who are in any way quirky in character, often don't suit school, and even average children often get bullied by others and are miserable.

So, cruel???? I took my daughter out of school at 8. She was very unhappy. She was an able child and didn't fit in. They put her into a higher class to stretch her academically, but emotionally she is young for her age and couldn't cope.

Since taking her out she has been the happiest child you could possibly imagine. She loves the life she has, she greets every day with enthusiasm and excitement, she has loads of really good, close friends (something she never had in school), and she is thriving academically. I know she is having the most wonderful childhood. So, in what way is it cruel not to send her??

Also, at 10 years old, she is still able to be a little girl. There is nobody telling her she shouldn't be playing any more because it's for babies (like my eldest had in school at 10), no pressure to wear makeup, get boyfriends etc (and yes, these things do start at primary school). She has all the friends she could possibly want, but she isn't defined by them. She is her own person.

Sorry to rant, but I've had so much of this, and I'm afraid you will too. People don't understand when they first meet home education and so they speak out of ignorance, sadly.

Well, dp doesnt seem to be budging. He thinks I want to wrap them up in cotton wool and keep them locked away from the world.

I am going to have a battle with my entire family on this one.

I have found a fantastic HE centre in the next town from us. It really is amazing how much support you get.

I am so annoyed with dp for not opening his mind a little.

Have you tried asking him why he's being so stubborn? Does he have specific concerns that could be addressed? What if you see HE as the default and make him prove to you why it would be a good idea to send them to school? Why is it always the parent who wants to HE who has to prove their case?

Why not say 'ok, the children are at home, they're thriving, and I'm not going to send them to school unless you can show me it's a good idea'? It's no different than him saying 'I'm not going to let them be HEd unless you can show me it's a good idea' is it?

My dp came round- there is hope! Time is on your side so don't rush it and don't worry. However, it looks like you've already encountered the worst thing about HE (imo) - other people and their opinions. You'll need a thick skin, determination and confidence in what you're doing to stand up to everyone.

I'm fortunate in that my dp and parents are supportive, but have just been on holiday with the in-laws who are a very different kettle of fish. Apparently there's nothing wrong with ds that couldn't be fixed by sending him to school (like every other 4yo boy in the country is perfectly behaved? Argh!).

Rant over have you joined the Early Years Muddle Puddle yahoo group? For HEing 0-8 year olds. Really good, loads of info, resources and support.