Do you agree with me about young boys in our society?

[Elf]

I've just quickly read something that Fillyjonk said about her son needing daily walking and it reminded me of something I meant to put up for discussion here.

IMO, our young boys (boys in particular I think), get a bit of a raw deal in our society. It seems that many people agree that many of them are very energetic, want to run around, be noisy disruptive etc etc.

I feel that this is because not so long ago and for all generations before that, young boys would have been with their dads a lot of the time, spending their time being useful in their community and also learning important skills for hunting, fishing, making bows, arrows etc. They were learning, very early on what to do to be a man in that community.

They would have been outside all day everyday, using up this energy they have and would have felt like useful, respected members of the community.

I feel my dcs need to go for long walks everyday, which isn't always possible, but I feel that that would be one of the most natural things for them to be doing.

Instead, boys here today are given trampolines to bounce off their energy or just, as Fillyjonk says, labelled with ADHD etc.

If it was normal for our children to learn how to survive outside and get all their requirements from their local environment, that would keep them healthy mentally and physically. I often lament that we are not all in straw huts or caves in small villages. (Though perhaps somewhere warmer

What do you think? I know what I mean, I hope it is clear to you.

THis summer we took a leap into the dark, and started to let ours play outside without supervision. They were 10 and 7. And they had the company of several other children of the same age. We are fortunate to live on a quietish estate, with a recreation field. And they were allowed to play 'out' unsupervised by adults.

they loved it, thrived and it was also rather nice for the grown ups.

They kept poping back every 15 minutes or so, and were very sensible.

Yes, I know it is sad.

Though that's why the camping thing works I suppose - I don't supervise. I don't supervise at the beach either.

But then again you see, I let the boys out to the big park over the road on their own - they are 10 and 8 now.

I do sit at home and chew the carpet, but I think it's important, so I veer towards freedom/recklessness over constraint/paranoia.

But god knows it's not easy.

100x, are you me?

[100 and MB look queasy/proud/nervous/shifty/triumphant at unleashedness]

LOL. It was an x post.

But yes, I am. Unfortunately your science class is in disarray and they keep sticking their hands up and saying 'Miss, Miss why do you keep talking about Shakespeare?'

Don't hang on for good A'level results this year. That's all I'm saying.

and you must be wondering where genetics comes into Chaucer!

Well quite.

And I moved all the desks workbenches back and said 'let's play some drama games' and they looked dead shifty.

I don't like the suggestion that boys are being "feminised" or indeed that this is a bad thing. Sorry but I think all children need to run around and get dirty and be children.

Get really narked at this though I know that's not what the OP meant.

I also think that all children need to have the opportunity to run around and play whether they are girls or boys. Some may not want to as much as others whether they are girls or boys.
There are some very energetic boys and girls who can't sit still and some relatively quiet boys and girls.

Agree

Agree with MB's and ahundredtimes' first posts.

I do think that the education system has become somewhat 'feminised' though - not something I was I was aware of until a few months ago when ds started nursery school - but I realise that this may be to do with the teacher's and the children's personalities as well.

Camping, the beach and walking in the woods are my dc favourite things too!

remember?

ds1 is only 2.8 but definitely needs a good run around. Thank f*k for the local botanic gardens, big and wild with huge woods, and paths where he can run without trampling on any flowers, and pick up sticks and so on. Otherwise I don't know what I'd do with him, living in a city with no garden and only small sand-covered playgrounds or horrid dogshitty parks nearby.

I agree with whoever said it's always been difficult for girls, now boys are beginning to find certain expectations put on their behaviour. The male role is changing, and I don't think that's a bad thing, as IMO (and E) boys are just as capable as girls of learning empathy, listening etc. - ds1 adores listening to me read page after page after page of poetry. But I do think there is a degree to which 'boyish' behaviour (whether it arises through nature or nurture) is stigmatised these days. I think part of the key is differentiating between exuberance and agrression and encouraging rather than condemning the former.

Well put bero! I completely agree with you.

Before puberty, just what is 'boyish' behaviour and is it still 'boyish' if my girls display it?

I worry sometimes that some people see ds as out of control or aggressive. He's 3, nearly 4, and today had his lightsabre out at the bus stop and was pretending to attack cars, then he'd throw himself on the ground and roll around, then get back to it. He did get some disapproving looks. But the fact is, he stops, moves to one side and stays still when someone passes and he doesn't actually hit anything with the lightsabre as I've already taught him the word vandal!

I was one of those, my child won't be "violent" or have weapons as toys, it's all society blah blah, till I was presented with ds who has a mind of his own, and it's all wildness and whacking! Although he is also very kind and compassionate and loves hugs and kisses too.

'Boyish' behaviour...

Picking up sticks when you're out for a walk

Tapping and fiddling

Pinning eachother on the ground

Tying eachother up

Digging holes

Carrying large rocks around on the beach for no apparent reason

What else?

Agree with Margoandjerry.

And what about Laddettes? Christ, some of the abuse my dh takes off of 16 year old girls is appaling by anyone's standards.

I don't think this is a gender issue, and to see it that way perhaps does more harm than good: we all stand around hand-wringing rather than actually creating more opportunities for children to play in a variety of ways ('feminised' or not).

Why can't we live in a world where children (and adults) have a variety of choices available to them, regardless of gender?

walkinmg along a low wall with one foot on the wall and one on the pavement, so that they walk all lopsided!

dd never did this. ds is addicted

But some of my girls have/do love/d doing that stuff so where does that leave them?

Totally agree, and I've read a lot of articles about the "feminisation" of our school system, now so few primary teachers are men. My DD loves to sit and paint, or glue or do "craft" things - my DS will do it for 1 second and then wants to be jumping or running or active. It's human nature, imo. My situation is exacerbated because my DS is autistic, which some studies suggest is an extreme form of masculinity, possibly even influenced by excess testosterone while in the womb (though it's also genetic, I'm pretty sure). But a friend of mine who has three boys (not special needs) talks of having to take them for walks each day, or they just start fighting. I can remember my own dear brother when we were growing up, if he couldn't think of anything else to do, he'd do a headstand!

I personally think ALL children would benefit from more physical freedom, less supervision, less time sat indoors listening and working quietly, more time outdoors using their bodies and discovering things

So do I have odd girls then?

Totally agree F&Z

I don't recognise a social reality for boys as Elf describes it, although I know people who would strongly agree with her.
And I do know one boy for whom it may be spot on the truth, because he is obviously SO unhappy about sitting still in school hours.
But then there are a few girls like that, too.
Also for most kids doesn't seem that tough to me to balance their quiet learning time at school with letting them have rough and tumble risk-taking time outside of school.
My DSs love nothing better than computer games, which is rather non-physical non-interactive activity if ever there was.