An apology and a request for encouragement...

[NumptyNameChange]

I have stated with utter conviction at least a few times on mumsnet, and most recently on the ongoing thread about fines for term time holidays, that homeschooling is not an option for me as a single parent. I was convinced of that as entirely as I would be of the difference between black and white.

It has suddenly occurred to me that actually yes, there possibly ARE ways I could do it that may not be obvious or without complications but are not unattainable necessarily.

So this is partly an apology and partly a big ask for help and encouragement.

It is such a HUGE idea to actually say NO, I won't let you have my son and put him through this whole machine that every instinct in me rejects despite being a teacher myself, and actually maybe i COULD give him something better that didn't leave him screwed or me screwed or us living in the gutter. But there is so much convention and opinion and resistance that it would be easy to lose sight of this or not garner the confidence and conviction to go through with it.

Any encouragement or wisdom would be massively appreciated.

For a little background my son is nearly seven, in year 2 at a village primary and has no SEN or relevant issues. I am a secondary school teacher of Religious Studies and I work three days a week in term time (so obviously some issues to work out there in terms of childcare, affordability etc but suddenly I'm open to the idea that those ideas are potentially not insurmountable and given some of the things i've read on the thread i mentioned before may well be worth surmounting even if it means sacrifice and challenge and massive going against the tide).

"the schools job in a society is really to make them obedient citizens who don't think or question."

Really?

Schools are interested in results and whether the teachers like it ,agree with it or not the focus of schools is to get children leaving them with the best results possible ,immaterial of whether that is in the best interest of the individual child . I was told that by a head teacher earlier this week .

Education is important but schools are probably not the best place in the world to learn.
I suppose they are ok if you need childcare and your children to learn how to conform to a very narrow prescriptive system.

curlew well yes, that's the purpose of the institution of education. to socialise individuals into good/useful citizens.

initially it was the church who started formal education with their particular doctrine then it was the state.

that's why it's ruled by politicians rather than teachers or academics. why do you think they put gove in charge rather than the top expert on learning?

sorry - i'm an anthropologist originally so this stuff seems standard stuff to me being from a social science background. curlew if it was a genuine question then i'd recommend a dip into a sociology textbook or introduction.

socialisation: Process by which individuals acquire the knowledge, language, social skills, and value to conform to the norms and roles required for integration into a group or community. It is a combination of both self-imposed (because the individual wants to conform) and externally-imposed rules, and the expectations of the others. In an organizational setting, socialization refers to the process through which a new employee 'learns the ropes,' by becoming sensitive to the formal and informal power structure and the explicit and implicit rules of behavior. See also organizational culture and orientation.

Read more: www.businessdictionary.com/definition/socialization.html#ixzz2rKKJJXuB

and for the socialist who commented earlier that i should leave teaching this is the marxist perspective of school: The existing structures of authority in modern capitalist societies resulted in the unjust subordination of working class people and so the above school norms and values encourage disadvantaged workers to accept their own subordination with little questioning or opposition

^re: that is why teaching is a subversive activity according to certain philosophers - because what the teacher is teaching within the system they are in is at direct odds with what the purpose and agenda of the system itself is.

"curlew well yes, that's the purpose of the institution of education. to socialise individuals into good/useful citizens."

Isn't that different from "obedient citizens who don't think or question"?

And yes, it was a genuine question- why wouldn't it be?

oh and this is why i am a religious studies and philosophies and ethics teacher - it is a space on the curriculum where people get to explore values, politics, contrasting world views and ethical considerations and to develop their own ideas and internal world if done well. re: subversive.

in capitalism not really curlew. who decides what is good and useful in a capitalist society? what do they think is good and useful for a working class youngster? the ability to willingly work for minimum wage and be content with their lot.

i was just checking whether you actually wanted to know or were being sarcastic - always worth checking before bothering to explain your point of view on here i find

Hello Numpty

I wouldn't want to mess with you .

I don't think you should leave teaching because of your views, but must admit to wondering how you would manage the huge difference between H.ed and school teaching.
I taught A level Sociology at a FE college, not my subject though, not surprising in this day and age.
I don't think I could teach now I see education so differently, I see such a conflict of interest. This isn't the reason I quit teaching though, it was long before starting H.ed. I must admit that my experience in teaching did help me to make the decision to H.ed

what's important to employers of cheap unskilled labour? punctuality and good attendance. so what does the state do? introduce fines for those who don't conform to that.

does the elite want to have to make special arrangements and treat workers as individuals with their own needs? no, so when their pals get into power they try to get rid of SEN considerations and programmes because they give people the impression that who they are and what they need matters and they don't want that in their workers.

It's not that I want to know- I wanted to know what you thought. I don't agree with you, by the way. But as I said, I find the fact that HEers seem to need to justify their choice by condemning schools, school pupils had parents who use schools deeply depressing. And it happened within about three posts on this thread.

hi morethan. i'm really very nice and gentle honest!

i left teaching the first time because i moved back to middle england and found myself in a school where most of the staff were bully boys with big aspirations for promotion and a yes sir attitude to top down initiatives no matter how damaging to staff and students. good teachers and managers had glass ceilings flagrantly blocking them so they could be head of pastoral management for example and be used to deal with all ills and take care of students and staff and keep the whole school running but jesus don't let them get their hands on the purse strings or any decision making or they might do what's right instead of what they're told!

i'm back in and my colleagues are lovely so far and i'm trying to stay positive about the schools ability to improve and move forward from a tough time. i'm massively comforted by having decent colleagues and being surrounded by good intentions. despite what someone else said about 'i shouldn't teach if i don't love the bones of our education system' the very best teachers i've known have been the ones able to be critical of and resistant to the political agendas and ambitious at all costs arses who were safe to promote and the company of such teachers makes all things bearable (i hope).

curlew - it's not just me you don't agree with but marx, generations of sociologists, theologists and politicians and teacher training institutions. so i won't take it personally. you see education differently to all the authorities on it and that is entirely up to you.

I am glad to see it is working out for you Numpty I do wish you'd change your nn again though, you clearly are not a numpty.

I do think that dd will eventually attend school again, but the nearest we will come will be a specialist school that operates completely differently to most other schools.

I think if teachers who didn't agree with the system left then we wouldn't have teachers in schools. As far back as I can remember there have always been aspects of the system that teachers and parents haven't agreed with, and since the very first schools, change has been the most constant thing about the education system.

yes i do think those who say, if you don't agree with it you should leave, have never worked in public services or in a position where they work for the vulnerable. we wouldn't have education or the nhs or social services etc without people who were willing to do all they could to do good within a corrupt system. and god knows how much worse politics would be if every politician who didn't wholeheartedly agree with the state of modern political rule just packed up and went home.

i'm sure you'll find what's right for your dd at each stage along the way - or the nearest fit you can.

god i wonder if i can start another thread about homeschooling that can be for home educators and those who can be encouraging and engaged in the subject rather than those who want a pop at a teacher who dares to disagree with school policies and to admit there are problems in schools?

is it what always happen when you talk about home educating?

Yep, that's why this forum is so quiet!

No, this is a new one on me.

people usually point out that your children will miss out on socialisation, they usually mean that your children will miss out socially
There are many assumptions about H.ed both in rl and here.
There have been some very heated debates on here though and there seems so little traffic here now. Such a shame when you look back at some of the constructive threads.

'ather than those who want a pop at a teacher who dares to disagree with school policies and to admit there are problems in schools?"

I hope you don't include me in that? I would love to have proper debates about HE- I have lots of personal experience and I think I could learn from and inform such a debate. But it always seems to happen that I end up having to defend people who use schools from being characterized as unthinking sheep who need child care.......we're not, you know. Many of us are intelligent thinking people with intelligent, thinking , questioning children.

curlew

I think some people may be a little bit defensive because so many people are negative about H.ed and have the belief that you have to be failing your children if they don't attend school. I'm not suggesting you are like this but it got to such a stage a while back that it was hard to have even a light discussion to share ideas without the above happening.
I don't mind because I'm thick skinned but after a while you sort of give up and go elsewhere to discuss.

Surely then you would understand how it feels to be told you are following the flock or only looking for child care if you use schools? Defensive I could understand- dismissive I can't. I would love to contribute to this and other threads- as I said I have lots of experience-'but I never feel I can. Because my choices have already been condemned.

There is a big difference between seeing some issues with the way some schools are which I can completely appreciate and what the op has said that she completely rejects the idea of the school system and sees it as a machine. That's clearly completely different! We should always be striving to better education for everyone!
I am all for home ed btw and I think there are loads of brilliant schools and we should be working on improving all schools.
My partner is training to teach and completely disagrees with private schooling therefore he would never work in one or send kids to one. This is no different.