Are there any benefits of Primary school that HE can't usually provide?

[carolinecordery]

Hello all, I haven't registered my DD for Reception, which she would be eligible to start in September.
I was just wondering if you thought there were any benefits of primary school that HE can't provide. What things are good about primary school that are only available through attending?
I'm planning to HE and am convinced of the benefits of doing so, but want a rounded picture. It's easy to think of loads of things that would be, relatively, a bit crap about primary school, but is there ANY really good reason to go? DD's non-resident dad would rather she went.
Thanks, Caroline

I live in an area where people pay silly prices to get into the catchment. The school is smashing, but the school population is a narrow slice of the community.

Basically, anyone who is not white, middle class and carrying a Kath Kidston lunchbox sticks out like a sore thumb.

There's more to school than education.

My husband is supersmart. All his family are supersmart in their chosen fields. Everyone he works with is educated to post grad, wears a suit, is polite, clean and reliable.

Now, his family focussed on education - and that has won him (and us) many benefits. But, he missed out on how to deal with PEOPLE, he was too busy studying. And, that has made him a bit judgemental and smug.

The folk who do well in life aren't neccessarily the ones who get the best education. They are the ones who are good with other people - who learned how to make friends, and be kind and how to deal with someone who is mean or grumpy or boisterous. How to deal with not being top of the class, how to keep trying even if you find it hard. That sometimes, you just have to Get On With It. How to be humble in victory, gracious in defeat. And on, and on, an on.

It can be done - of course HE's meet up and their kids mix together at certain times of the year - but

• how do you learn to be popular in a class of one?

School gives DCs opportunities that might not have crossed the parents mind- purely because you have the input of far more adults.

I think this is what it boils down to for me, exotic, alongside the social side. It is the input - and influence - of multiple adults in a way that probably wouldn't happen for most HE'd kids. Yes, I realise of course that many HE'd kids will be exposed to many different adults during the course of their education, but I find it unlikely that many HE parents relinquish control in quite the same way that you do when your children are at school.

I appreciate that this is actually one of the attractions of HE for some parents, but for me, it is a major barrier. I don't want to be the gatekeeper to all of my dc's experiences, and it's good to take a step back and let others judge what she might be ready for. I do have a tendency to be over-protective in some circumstances, and I am grateful that dd has a chance to do things in a safe environment that I might never have considered possible.

During her years at school, the teachers have seen aptitudes and abilities in my dd that I might never have noticed. These have been nurtured and develoed by her teachers in ways that simply couldn't have happened at home. And so I am thankful, yes, that the responsibility for her education is a shared one - a partnersip between dd, me and the school.

I would agree Jinsei. I don't have the confidence that I can be all things to my DCs-the sheer responsibility scares me. Mine are all older and when they look back many of the things that were important to them I have completely forgotten and things that I think ought to stand out they have no memory for. They are highly critical and can do wonderful impersonations of me (unfortunately quite accurate!)-luckily there isn't anything major-we can all look back fondly and laugh. You can't assume that your DC will see things in the same way.
I have loved the way that teachers have nurtured or sparked interests and abilities that I have never spotted and brought out a different side.
On MN I feel that I am 'liberty hall' (compared to others) but in reality I know that I am overprotective and quite controlling -as my DSs say 'we are big boys now!' echoed by DH who says 'they are big boys now!' and I know that I would have found it much more difficult being together all the time.
You want to protect your DCs but it isn't in their best interests. I got annoyed with my mother,I was 32 at the time, and she said that she just wanted to wrap me in cotton wool so that I didn't get hurt!! I was a bit snappish-I said that I was an adult and you only learn by your own mistakes.
I love the fact that they come out of school and when you ask what they did they can say 'nothing'! They don't have to tell you if they don't want to.
They have a life that you can't be part of.
One of the nicest things in teaching was cards by the DCs written with 'in' jokes that only we as a class understood because you 'gel' together.

I have nothing against HE and I know certain DCs that would be much better off with it but I do think that you have to stand back every so often-try and see it objectively and think -is this really working or could it be better? Is it really a good idea to not see John because they are not getting on or leave your DC and John to find a way to sort it themselves?

HE is a most difficult option IMO and not to be taken lightly.

They have a life that you can't be part of.

yy, I will always remember dd nearly wetting herself laughing when she realised in reception that I didn't know that x friend was in "yellow group." Initially, she was simply incredulous that I didn't know something that appeared to her as such an obvious, basic fact of life, but she was subsequently delighted by this sudden realisation that she had a whole life in school that I wasn't part of. And her utter delight in this "independence" told me how very important it was to her.

'The folk who do well in life aren't neccessarily the ones who get the best education. They are the ones who are good with other people - who learned how to make friends, and be kind and how to deal with someone who is mean or grumpy or boisterous. How to deal with not being top of the class, how to keep trying even if you find it hard. That sometimes, you just have to Get On With It. How to be humble in victory, gracious in defeat. And on, and on, an on.'

But these skills aren't taught at school. There are plenty of schooled children that do not have these skills. For some children the sink or swim environment will damage them to such an extent they cannot learn and cannot develop skills but spend their school days in high anxiety panic and eventually school refuse.

"But these skills aren't taught at school. There are plenty of schooled children that do not have these skills. For some children the sink or swim environment will damage them to such an extent they cannot learn and cannot develop skills but spend their school days in high anxiety panic and eventually school refuse."

These things are actually supposed to be taught in schools- sometimes they aren't. There are undeniably some crap schools. However, most schools are not "sink or swim" environments.

And yes, there are children for whom school is entirely the wrong place. Or for whom the school they are at is entirely the wrong place- nobody is denying that. But I do wonder why home educators need to justify their choices by refusing to see any positives in school education- or any negatives in home education. It's always very black and white. And life isn't like that.

"But I do wonder why home educators need to justify their choices by refusing to see any positives in school education- or any negatives in home education. It's always very black and white. And life isn't like that."

You said it seeker

I can certainly see positives in HE as I hope my posts here show - eg 1-1 attention, chance to follow topic that interests etc.

But there are also positives in school education and I am afraid a lot of the HE-ers posting here seem unable to see them. It's a shame really as I think the two sides could learn a lot from each other.

Seeker and Clary.
There are positives to school education, but I feel there are greater opportunities to learn out of school. The sink or swim environment you talk of is not just experienced at school, there are many groups my dd attends out of school where this happens.So not really a school issue. Maybe h.eders feel the need to justify their actions when people who know little or nothing about the subject give opinions on what it is like. I can imagine what people will say when I tell them dd is to be h.ed. Why would we want to take a confident, happy, above average child out of school. My answer is to allow her to learn, simple as that.

Learn what?

I really dont think that socialisation is a problem with home educated children,its not as though they are deregistered from school and locked in a dark house!!.

Speaking from our experience ds3 has 2 older siblings (both who were also home educated at times one is reading law at university the other is disabled and about to start college in sept)ds3 is a lively popular sociable 11 year old,school is literally a 6 ish hour day and children play out after school,they go to clubs and groups and theres holidays and weekends too.

We are sometimes invited to see school productions and exhibitions both at mainstream school and at an excellent sn school that my friends son attends,ds3 enjoys visiting the schools and 'mingles' appropriately.

If I were pushed to say a negative about home educated children in my experience (mostly with ds3 as ds1 and 2 had each other) ds3 doesnt do 'playground politics' he doesnt do 'meaness' when it comes to picking teams,he doesnt 'do' aggressive play,he kind of steps back and watches what goes on,of course this may have been his temperament in school too,who knows?

Ds3 is non judgemental he plays with a little boy who is mixed race (Pakistan) and when some of the other kids said they werent playing with this little boy because he was mixed race ds3 said to him (and the boys mum heard this and repeated it back to me) your not a you are from smith st and thats in England, also he has a very unusual friendship with a boy with autism,his level of understanding his needs is really good and as a result even though theres 5 years between them they are vv good friends.

Ds3 mixes with a broad spectrum of people that arent child orientated and he has to learn how to get along with them for example the window cleaner,ds3 wanted to get his ball off the flat roof part and our ladders didnt reach,he asked the window cleaner could he use his ladders? in return he was asked to get some hot water from our house to 'swap'....the kitchen fitter was vv grumpy and ds3 was determined to help so he held rulers and foud pencils made mugs of tea and was 'allowed' to help',he also has to answer the times people ask (not always nicely) 'Why arent you at school?' and when he answers be ready for 'Are you a naughty boy then?' ......

But there are also positives in school education and I am afraid a lot of the HE-ers posting here seem unable to see them. It's a shame really as I think the two sides could learn a lot from each other.

Possibly because school is the default choice so most HEers have thought long and hard about their decision to HE and have ensured that they have strategies to replicate (what they consider to be) the positive aspects of school.

Not sure if I'm reading you correctly. It does sound as if you are saying you think that a downside of home education for you is that your child is lovely and caring and inclusive and thoughtful in his dealings with people as opposed to being "mean" and "aggressive" and involved in "playground politics" like school educated children. But I'm sure I must be reading it wrongly......

We have 3 grown up children who have all been through the school system and our youngest DD who has never been to school. There honestly isnt one benefit of school that my 3 older children experienced (or mentioned on this thread) that my youngest DD could not replicate if she wanted to.

It's not that I refuse to see the positives in school, I just believe DD can have all those experiences outside of school, without having to spend all day, every day in an institution. She can have an education perfectly suited to her, and a great social life. It's silly to assume that an HE child somehow has a sheltered life, never having friends of their own choosing or never learning to deal with conflict, because this is certainly not my idea of HE children at the groups we attend! It's quite the opposite in fact.

they have a life you cant be part of

This assumes that HE children never get to do anything independant of their parents. Again, not true and another of the many mis-conceptions about HE children littered throughout this thread. Of course, HE kids are independant and spend time out of their parent's sight, just not all day, every day but I wouldnt say that was an advantage for a young child anyway.

It's interesting that there are people here who have said they would never/ could never HE yet they seem to be the most vocal with their skewed views of how life must be like fo an HE child? If you spent a day at our HE group I think you would be pleasantly surprised! There are around 60 children attend, from all walks of life.

I know it's an open forum, but why, if you have already decided you would never HE, would you come onto an HE thread and sing the praises of school, repeating the same old chestnuts over and over again?
Yes, I know the OP asked for opinions of the benefits of school not availabe to HE children, but I say again, there is nothing that school provides that cant be found in the HE community. Heck, you can even find a bit of bullying if you look hard enough!
You just have to make the effort to find it.

And he ers always seem to assume that you know nothing about the subject f you don't he. And that people who use schools haven't made thoughtful and informed choices about education.

Oh, and often seem to be implying that people who don't HE shouldn't post on any thread about HE. Very odd.

I think they only imply you shouldn't make comments assuming something which isn't necessarily true, not that you no nothing. Even though I do not home ed yet I am in a similar position toSigaSiga, whom I am sure has completely different approaches and philosophies to HE than I do. So no we do not all the same philosophies. I know that parents of children in schools consider their education obviously they do. If you read most threads here you will see many have attended school at some point or even from the start and then HE. The OP asked about primary school. There are many here who are qualified to speak, but unfounded assumptions will not help to create a balanced approach. IMO you should speak about what you do know

My children hate mixed race kids, but they do let kitchen fitters get on with their jobs in peace. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

Sorry- I don't understand that last post!

Do you think that is an appropriate comment, Steamingnit?

Seeker, I don't mean to sound condescending but do you really need me to tell you what children learn between birth and adulthood.
Well theres academic, vocational, socialisation, life skills, and probably more if I thought for long enough.
I just feel my dd doesn't need to be institutionalised to learn. Also I don't trust a government to provide the best curriculum for my dd. I don't trust them 100% with other issues and concerns in life, so why with an important thing like my dds education

No parent should (and very few do) trust schools 100% with their child's education though, just because a child attends school doesn't for a second mean that the child doesn't learn outside of that environment.

What is taught in school is just a small part of the overall education.

I was referring to the poster above (nickseasterchick( who said that her child didn't discriminate because he plays with a mixed race child - and objecting to the notion that that is somehow an 'HE' thing. Also feeling a bit of sympathy for the poor 'grumpy' kitchen fitter.

Of course school is a small part and I don't think anyone just hands their child over! It is a partnership. They are only there for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week for about 32 weeks-they don't go in a cupboard the rest of the time! What they learn at home is just as valuable.
I really draw the line at 'institutionalised'-it is utter bunkum! I am not institutionalised and neither are my children-or any others that I know!
Why on earth would anyone trust the government or schools 100%? You don't abdicate your role as parent.

You can go to school and be kind, caring and friendly and ignore playground politics! You certainly play with children from all backgrounds in a non judgemental way.

Heck, my mixed race dd is even allowed to play with the other kids at her school. Who would have guessed that those poor institutionalised kiddies could be so accepting!

Nickschichick did suggest that the only downside she saw to HE was that I has made her children so very very sensitive and understanding and oh so inclusive.....,,,,,

And surprisingly enough, I don't think my children need to be institutionalised to learn either.........!