Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Home ed

Find advice from other parents on our Homeschool forum. You may also find our round up of the best online learning resources useful.

Are there any benefits of Primary school that HE can't usually provide?

613 replies

carolinecordery · 03/06/2012 19:52

Hello all, I haven't registered my DD for Reception, which she would be eligible to start in September.
I was just wondering if you thought there were any benefits of primary school that HE can't provide. What things are good about primary school that are only available through attending?
I'm planning to HE and am convinced of the benefits of doing so, but want a rounded picture. It's easy to think of loads of things that would be, relatively, a bit crap about primary school, but is there ANY really good reason to go? DD's non-resident dad would rather she went.
Thanks, Caroline

OP posts:
julienoshoes · 06/06/2012 10:43

I thought you were referring to unschooling with the comment that you haven't taught your DC to read.

LeBFG I was....we were totally radical unschoolers. No formal work at all, until the children chose it-which was when they went to FE college/started an OU course....
and the same applies to all of the list of successfully at FE College/Uni employed/self employed young people, doing that array of subjects, that I gave earlier.

DontmindifIdo · 06/06/2012 10:46

oh and if OP is still reading and is going to HE, an issue from my family that was a problem for 'schoolies' that might also be a problem for you - are there a lot of other HEers near you? Not a drive away, but a walk away? We moved as a family when my brother was already at secondary so he continued to go to that school, it wasn't that far away in the car and my dad drove to/from it every day anyway (that's where my Dad taught), it was an excellent school and it made sence for DB to go there (all boys, so it wasn't an issue for me). I went to the local school - my DB did miss out on having friends who he could walk to their house, going round to a friends house could only happen when it was ok for my parents to drive him, or involved him getting 2 buses, so didn't happen much on weekends, and certainly not on evenings. His friendships required our parents to help make them work.

We went back to that village recently and I walked to the local shops saying hello to parents of kids I went to school with, I know a large number of people in that community to say hello to, my brother didn't have that, it was rather noticable. Of course he knew some of these people as "My sister's friend's mum" and recognised people, but he didn't have a relationship with them.

You could probably recreate that 'being part of a large community' aspect if you're involved in your local church, and if you have a large number of HE families who live in say a 2 mile radius of your house.

julienoshoes · 06/06/2012 10:50

"You could probably recreate that 'being part of a large community' aspect if you're involved in your local church, and if you have a large number of HE families who live in say a 2 mile radius of your house."

I've said it does depend on where you live, and/or your available transport-own car or access to public transport.

but we had two families within a 5 mile radius, but a very active community more widely and we had a fabulous social life!

ProfessorSunny · 06/06/2012 10:52

Places for September have already been allocated, are you confident that you would get her in at the school you want if you do decide to go down that route? Good luck making a decision and getting her Dad to agree.

exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 10:52

What comes across to me is that HE at it's best is wonderful but I know that it can be dire. In the same way that state education can be wonderful and dire with everything in between. Julienoshoes paints a wonderful picture but, if hand is on heart, must know some families that fall badly short- ones that she wouldn't want her DCs to be with for a week.
My friend lives in a wonderful part of the country - I consider she makes a good job of it- and she knows others who manage it like julie - but, and it is a big BUT she knows families where she is very sorry for the DCs. She knows the boy who did nothing much, couldn't read at 8yrs and is now at Cambridge- the mistake is to think they can all do it- they can't. She also knows some that she thinks to be unemployable.
It is very easy to be unrealistic at home. I read a blog of a HEer(known to my friend). I was bemused at what she proposed for the elder and asked a friend with musical DCs if it was possible. She said not. The blogger must have discovered this because they are now on plan B. She really has no idea of what the real world is like - I just lurk waiting to see what happens and am assuming a plan C will come into operation by Christmas - based on my experiences.

No one has answered my question. It is a bit of a cop out to say they could tell me if the were unhappy at school- if so I would find a way. I want someone to say how I could present it as an option that would be better than sending them all to school.

exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 10:54

You have to bear in mind that some families are isolated. One poster wanted to know what to do, she had no car and the local families were cliquey.

Jinsei · 06/06/2012 10:54

I agree that this thread proves that the debate is largely pointless. I have tried to engage, with an open-mind, but I haven't really seen the same willingness from some HE-ers. Thanks to those that have tried to answer my questions. I do get that the defensiveness possibly becomes a habit after years of criticism and questioning. It's a pity.

It's also a pity that some HE-ers refuse to even entertain the idea that people who don't HE themselves might have anything useful to say on the subject. Many of us may have considered it ourselves, we will probably know families who do HE, and we may well know of adults who were HE'd themselves. Interestingly, of the three adults I know who were HE'd when they were younger, all have chosen to send their own children to school.

So, my mind remains unchanged as a result of the debate - there are distinct pros and cons to both HE and school education, and at the end of the day, it boils down to what suits each parent and each child best.

exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 10:56

Julienoshoes comes on paints an idyllic picture and you think ' sounds a wonderful alternative' and then Colleger comes on and you think 'not in a million years with that attitude'.

exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 10:59

I think that sums it up Jinsel. HEers would be listened to far more if they dropped the unpleasant defensive attitude.

morethanpotatoprints · 06/06/2012 11:02

Exotic, If you mean how to present it to dcs then this is what I intend to do with dd 8. Although I must stress DH and I have definitely not decided yet whether to H. ed or not. I am asking her questions at this stage, really the type I would ask anyway. What classes are good, teachers she likes, subjects, friends etc. I do know many of the answers already but clarification is good. I am preparing a list of differences between both situations. I will then ask her to give me her view asking what she feels will be advantages or disadvantages. What wouldn't she like to miss etc. Obviously most of this will only happen if Dh ans I decide it worthwhile going ahead. I must also stress we will not do anything dd is not 100% behind. I think we owe it to her to state the choices in education. I cannot speak for others though.

Saracen · 06/06/2012 11:07

Hi exotic, you sound very keen to get a response to your 7:05 post. I'll answer part of it anyway, by telling you how it works out for our family having HE children of different ages. Two girls, now aged 12 and 5.

My little one was very ill as a newborn and took up nearly all of my time for the first few months. I relied on family and friends, particularly the home ed network. Dd1 hardly reduced her level of outside activities at all during this time, she just went with other people instead of me. I'd done them favours in the past - I try never to go anywhere with just one kid if I can take somebody else's kids along too - so I had no hesitation asking them for help when we needed it.

Once dd2 was out of the hospital and things had settled down we carried on with lift-sharing and childcare swaps as we always had. It's very common in our circle. At a given home ed group roughly a third of the children will have come with a family other than their own. Sometimes they get a lift home with yet another family!

While the three of us were at home together, I saw the big age gap as a bonus because the kids' needs were different. I played Monopoly or chess with dd1 while feeding the baby. Dd1 often moved my game pieces when my hands were full. Or I used a bookstand with clamp to hold the book I was reading aloud to dd1 while cuddling the baby. Easier than having a toddler clamouring to be in your lap or needing help with the potty when the baby needs to be in your arms!!

Like most parents, whatever the age gap, I had worried that dd1 would miss out on my attention when I was occupied with the baby. She certainly did get less of my attention than she'd had when she was an only child. But the fact that I was on hand throughout the day meant that the little bits of attention she got from me here and there added up to enough for her, which probably wouldn't have been the case if she'd been home with me for just a few hours a day. To my surprise, she was hardly jealous at all. Schoolchildren with baby siblings have to fight for mum's attention during the short time when they are with her - which unfortunately often includes the time when the whole family is overtired and ratty. That evening "witching hour" when baby is fussing and mum is trying to get dinner on the table isn't great for spending quality time with an older child. By contrast, if the older child has also had access to mum during the baby's happy mornings and throughout every nap, she'll have had plenty of attention already and is willing to occupy herself for a while in the evening.

Toddler groups and all that - yes, dd1 went to some of those. I always left it up to her. Sometimes she'd read in the corner, sometimes she'd play with the little kids, sometimes she'd play with the baby toys or do art by herself. I think older children often like the opportunity to do little-kid things. Having a little sibling provides the ideal excuse for an occasional return to Duplo and playdough. If I enjoy feeding the ducks sometimes, why wouldn't a nine year old? This is no deprivation. They still do big-kid stuff at other times.

My daughter also had the option of staying home alone whenever she wanted. Leaving older children home alone seems to be more common among my HE friends than it is with schoolchildren. Lots of reasons, I think. Necessity nudges some people in that direction, perhaps. We knew our elderly neighbours very closely because we were around so much, so dd would have gone to them in an emergency. We have the time to spend coaching our children in what to do in various situations and they've seen mum dealing with plumbing emergencies and maybe even helping. My SIL argues that it's dangerous to leave a 14yo home alone, citing the case of a local girl who was left home alone for the first time at that age, tried to boil the kettle, couldn't work out how to light the gas, and gave up, leaving the gas on. She didn't recognise the smell of gas which soon filled the house or know what to do about it. Mum arrived home and saved the day, and no longer leaves her daughter home alone. I draw a different conclusion: kids who don't spend much time at home WITH their parents getting the necessary life experience to handle a range of situations are ill-prepared to spend time at home WITHOUT their parents.

HE parents have more opportunity to observe how their kids respond in a range of situations so perhaps we feel better able to predict what they can cope with. It used to surprise me to see posts on parenting forums asking "Is it safe for me to let my nine year old do xyz?" and I thought "how can you not know what your own child can handle? Why ask strangers? You LIVE with him, we don't!" Then I realised that spending far less time with a child does equate to knowing him less well and maybe being unsure of how he'll respond, so some people do rely on what everyone else is doing for guidance.

My little one generally enjoys going along to her big sister's activities. There are often other younger siblings on the side at the hockey match and they all mill around playing together. Or we bring a stack of books or toys and sit together reading or playing, and she likes that attention. Dd1 gets to many of her own activities under her own steam and roams all over the city by bus so I'm not a total taxi service anymore, and that eases things considerably.

So yes, I love this big age gap and I don't think it interferes with our home education at all. I wouldn't have it any other way!

exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 11:22

Thank you Saracen- I do appreciate that you took the time to reply. Like you, I think it perfectly OK to leave a 9 yr old alone but judging from MN in general it is a case for SS - and on a recent thread a 9 yr old should never be asked to mind a 20month old for 30mins while mother is in the kitchen! It was the mother's job! There must be some overprotective parents who are HErs too.
I wouldn't take the older one to toddler groups - he wouldn't have liked it.
I can see you probably have a network to help but we moved when Ds1 was just under 9yrs and DS2 was 7 months. I found it difficult- the people I met with babies didn't want a 9 yr old, and parents I met with 9 yr old were long out of the baby stage.
I also had the 2 preschoolers which gave them the edge in weighting.

I can see that it is workable but nothing to convince me that Ds1 wasn't better off in school while I did all the things with the younger ones that he had already had with me.

bochead · 06/06/2012 11:33

I have a pragmatic rather than ideogical approach to the home/school debate.

Both options have advantages, neither has to be permanent. The scales of advantage/disadvantage to both can and do change over the time it takes for a child to grow to adulthood. Some kids may be natural unschooler types, others crave the routine & structure good schooling can provide. For me it's an individual thing, what suits one sibling may not suit another even within families.

Right now my son "socialises" at school & learns the 3R's at home, at secondary that balance will switch. Not the conventional way to look at education but the most effective for my particular child.

I need the resources school provides at this stage - a large peer group of NT role models for my son with a social communication disorder. At this stage of his development he needs that peer group 5 days a week, 6 hours a day. He also need SALT. Many therapies are only practically accessible via the school system unless you are rolling in wonga.

Many of the out of school socialisation activities others take for granted have been totally inaccessible to him until recently as he NEEDED that SALT and other theraputic interventions to access them. Other children may need specialist dyslexia support or regular OT etc only practically accessible by sending the child to school.

However I've already marked Interlink High, an online secondary school as the game changes at different stages of development. At this point he'll have got the social and therapy stuff he needed from the school system & my focus will turn to ensuring he becomes an employable adult. The special schools being mooted for him by experts do not offer academic opportunities commensurate with his IQ. It's acknowledged he'll sink in mainstream.

Socialisation opportunities via clubs, sports groups & societies such as St John's ambulance will be fully accessible to him by then, as a result of the primary interventions.

I know he won't get a decent academic learning opportunity at most London Comps & my own ability to help him at home with specialist subjects such as a foreign language to supplement school as I do at primary school will become increasingly compromised. Online homeschool will give him the peace and quiet he craves to learn effectively and access to tutors for specialist subjects such as foreign languages that I can't provide. It gives the benefits of structure and a set timetable etc that school does without the stressors.

6th form I envisage him going back to school as class sizes reduce at A level so becoming accessible for him once more. It will also support my efforts at that time to move him towards independence.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that a lot depends on the child, the need for any additional services such as dyslexia support, family set up & finances.
For many lone parents home ed is no longer an option now benefit rules have changed to incorporate the expectation you are available for work as soon as your child hits 5.

Jinsei · 06/06/2012 11:39

bochead, I like the pragmatic approach. It makes much more sense to me than the ideological stance. Your son is very lucky to have you. :)

exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 11:40

Nearly all mothers work by the time that the DCs are 7 yrs- and mostly for basics - not just the nice car and holidays.
I think it very workable if you are thinking of the needs of the DC and revising at each stage. To say that you are going to do it from the start for all the family and that you don't want them to be 'institutionalised' is the bit I don't agree with. I dare say HE would have suited my brother - it is unfair to then apply the same to me- we are very different.

exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 11:41

That us what I was trying to say- you managed it in one sentence Jinsei!

Jinsei · 06/06/2012 11:43
Grin
exoticfruits · 06/06/2012 11:50

The child is at the centre IMO and philosophy and ideology should stay out of it - then you wouldn't get the sort of thread that says 'my DC is happy and thriving at school but I would like to HE - what should I do?' To give them their due even most HEers say leave them at school in that situation.

Emandlu · 06/06/2012 12:01

We take our home ed a year at a time. We review it at the end of the school year with family (we have many teachers and educational types knocking about) and see how things go from there. Up till now there has been no reason for us to put them back into school.

I wouldn't tell everyone to home educate - only you as a parent can make that choice for your children. I can tell you what works for my children but it won't necessarily work for yours.

seeker · 06/06/2012 12:04

I love the pragmatic approach. In my belief and experience, dogmatism and child rearing do not mix. And the "school is all bad" home educators are the worst type of dogmatic.

AdventuresWithVoles · 06/06/2012 12:05

Seeker you were home-ed-d yourself, weren't you?
Sorry, long thread, can't manage to read it all.

seeker · 06/06/2012 12:19

I was. But I tend not to mention the fact since I discovered that it doesn't actually make me any more qualified to have an opinion on the subject than any other "schoolie" and any reservations I might have are the result of deficiencies in my personality rather than any possible shortcomings in my education!

Grin
AdventuresWithVoles · 06/06/2012 12:22

lol.

Emandlu · 06/06/2012 12:27

Grin I'm sorry that you come up against militant home edders! We're not all like that, but so many are unfortunately.

I just think that no method of education is perfect, there are good points and bad points in all.

Seeker, I am interested in your experiences - what do you see as your deficiencies in your education. I'd quite like to make sure I'm not saddling my DC with problems in the future.

kittyflora · 06/06/2012 12:30

Where has anybody said that specifically, Seeker? Or are you putting words in the mouths of home educators again?

I don't find it amusing in the slightest, though you seem to be enjoying yourself.