Lower offers based on ethnicity

[Bufftailed]

Was surprised to see Newcastle offer 3 grades lower for certain ethnic groups (state school, but no other socio economic criteria). Is anyone aware of any other unis doing this?

Yeah, probably. Black and Asian students won't be underrepresented at all unis, especially when you break down the demographics of Black and Asian. They'll probably do it in accordance with what they see at their university.

You know, this is one reason us white Brits who can afford to buy might want to be the nicer houses in the lower income areas. I'm fairly sure our privately educated boy might fit in because of our postcode.

Because it is relevant to the circumstances I am looking at

I’m going to ask MN to take down. I really didn’t want ti trigger a debate

Yes, he would, on postcode alone.

My white, middle class, daughters whose parents both attended university etc are also eligible under that scheme.

Its focusing on many groups which have their own struggles.

If a particular ethnicity is underrepresented it may be due to being children of immigrants who have English as second languages, or who have not yet laid foundations that allow them not to have to work three jobs to keep a roof over their heads, therefore these students have less opportunities to excel. It is no different than contextual offers for people in low socioeconomic areas. They can target those people who have an aptitude to learn, and who will succeed, but who haven’t had the same opportunities afforded to them.

I could be bitter than my son didn’t get into his uni of choice but that his girlfriend got into that uni on the same course with lower grades…or I could realise that he had opportunities that she didn’t, that I was able to make life easier for him so he had more time to study, I could help with the homework when her parents couldn’t as they didn’t have the background in maths and computing.

The whole thing is about making things equitable.

The real issue we should have with unis and their acceptance policies is when they are turning down British students to meet overseas quotas because they can charge them 30k a year instead of £10k a year. The course my son wanted and hit the grades for wasn’t put into clearing for Uk students, just overseas students, and they have a 30% foreign students quota they are targeting…that’s a real problem, prioritising people who will then take their education abroad, all because they can charge them more.

My DC also qualified on postcode / state school criteria for a couple of universities - didn’t get offers though (v competitive course).

Mine would qualify on more than one category but I was interested to see that our postcode would mean he qualifies. If it is just based on the first bit (like E11), then it perhaps it may let some people slip through that perhaps shouldn't. It might work in some parts of the UK but London is way too gentrified for that. I think I share a postcode with people from the top 5% to the lowest 5%. And that's literally just on my road.

She wasn’t wrong though. She also didn’t express a view on it either way.

The replies give away more than OP, I think.

Several posters seem to have assumed it must be wrong, without checking properly.

If an accurate description of a scheme is indistinguishable from how a racist trouble-maker would describe it, maybe the scheme needs rethinking.

“It’s not happening and it’s good that it’s happening!”

If you think it’s good that it’s happening, then why the angst about the publicity?

The real issue we should have with unis and their acceptance policies is when they are turning down British students to meet overseas quotas because they can charge them 30k a year instead of £10k a year

The even real-er issue is that those international student fees are necessary, because home student fees aren't enough to fund courses. Without international students, with a falling domestic birth rate, more universities will go bust with knock on effects for local economies as well as research and UK soft power. Education is a massive export for the UK.

Yes of course. Anything to help white working class kids*.

*sarcasm

Hi all,
Thanks to those who reported. We have no reason to think that the OP is posting in anything other than good faith and hold out hope that a reasonable discussion can be had - children and uni places are very much the stock in trade of MN. Please will those whose posts have been deleted take a moment to refresh themselves on the guidelines before posting again?

I think posters are missing that it makes you eligible for the lower offer - but you also have to do a fairly intensive summer school, it’s not just for everyone eligible.

Thank you. Was literally asking a question. Wild that it got such a response. Chat gpt next time…no answer to my question either 🤪

Oxford and cambridge have done it for at least 35 years.

My friend’s white daughter is at Newcastle on the PARTNERS scheme. She got her offer based on her postcode.

My privately educated son would also fit criteria. He received a contextual offer from a different uni based on our family situation.

I think this just shows how desperate they are for students. They need to provide cover for giving very low offers. It isn't as if Asian students are underrepresented at competitive universities.

I’m not sure this is correct. Both unis seem to say that contextual info doesn’t lower offers, and neither lists ethnicity as a contextual factor.

With Oxford and cambridge it tends to be socio-economic groups not ethnicity- I'm not sure how open they have to be about their criteria, TBH.

I don't think the use ethnicity (at least, not openly). I was also surprised their websites seem to say that contextual info isn't used to make lower offers. TBH I thought that was a big part of the point of contextualisation. Maybe it's some sleight of hand, i.e. they have a minimum that they don't go below.

I don't oppose contextualisation in principle. As in, a candidate's academic record may mean very different things depending on whether they were achieved in awful conditions or ideal ones. But I oppose doing it directly on ethnicity, as I think it opens a pandoras box that is best left untouched.

It's to attract bums on seats because all unis are suffering from spare places as less foreign students are taking places. Lots of universities offer special deals for targeted groups.
It would be interesting how look at the drop out rate amongst those who have had these deals though. Just because the offer is lower doesn't mean the course will be easier.
The uni get their fees for the year though even if the student leaves early, so it's in their interests to start with a full cohort
My son could not believe how quickly the numbers went down on his MEng course ( Russell group uni). He said their were loads who just could not cope with the levels of Maths required and had been accepted with much lower Maths grades than the norm.

In my experience they do this in order not to be overrun by identical upper middle class clones- they like a good deal of diversity, if you always take from the same groups and same schools you won't get any diversity.

Completely untrue.