Black Mark on UCAS File Before Clearing?

[CowTown]

Someone mentioned to me that DC shouldn’t put courses they are at risk of not getting an offer for. Their reasoning is that if DC is rejected at this stage, they will have a black mark from that particular uni department on their UCAS file, and will have problems getting through clearing there. Their advice is that if DC is under the required grades, they shouldn’t put the course on their application, because if the course goes into clearing with lower grades (which it historically does), they’ll be able to get in through clearing on results day if they don’t have this black mark on their record. That if they were initially rejected, the uni will say no at the clearing stage.

Is there any truth to this?

This thread isn’t about whether we should adopt post qual application/offer, but in defence of our pre-qual offer (note offer is pre-qual, not acceptance) system, so I don’t want to hijack, but it does allow students who are nervous, lacking in self-confidence, time to adjust to the idea of the uni they’re holding offers from. These are usually first in family, socially disadvantaged students. Not MN DCs with their wealth of cultural capital and sharp elbowed parents. Giving them time to receive support and encouragement from the unis they hold offers from is often hugely beneficial in developing a belief that uni is for them as well.

No, it still makes no sense. If schools are predicting higher than the kid will most likely get, why would a course requiring even higher than their already optimistic prediction make them an offer when the chances of them meeting it are slim? If the answer is 'well they might yet still make our minimum grades', then that is the university being dishonest about their entry requirements isn't it? Either it's an entry requirement i.e. minimum grade, or it's not.

And state kids will be disadvantaged by the lack of knowledge that they should be applying for courses higher than they have been predicted to qualify for. Because why on earth would they?

I didn’t intend to hijack the thread, @titchy . The valid queries and complaints about entry requirements sort of led me along!

You make a good point. But if the other 31 countries from the Sutton Trust survey, including Germany and France, can do it, probably we could also.

So what would you do about it? Bearing in mind that many universities are hanging on by their fingernails and will seek every short term advantage that is within the law.

I cannot think how it could feasibly be done without changing the school year for Y13, but then that would end up tracking back through the whole school system because it's unworkable otherwise. BUT there's already talk about changing the school year due to climate change so why can't the two things happen at the same time. Pull the summer holidays earlier, exams earlier in schools, but universities start late September as normal giving a longer break for A-level marking and applications.

Apologies for the cross post! This is most interesting.

I'm not sure I understand what advantage you are talking about? Pretending to be elite by pretending to require AAA but then actually filling the course with CCC students?

Perhaps Ofqual should require university entry requirements for the next year to match the average offer of the previous year.

Yes. I can only assume that this pretence is a successful marketing tool. If I were an applicant I would find the pretentiousness shallow and irritating. Apparently others do not?

I might allow a bit more leeway than one year, because there can be exceptional years. But I do believe some kind of alignment between achieved grades of recent entering cohorts and published entry standards should be required.

2026 there were stories of kids with AAB type offers getting in with BCC. Obviously a shock for them if they see on ucas place confirmed and assume their results are in the ball park of their offer and pick up results at school and get a huge shock.

Your example here of LJM and the sweet, proud mums on WIWIKAU is a great one. Playing into the idea that ‘they must really want me’ may be behind the psychology of the big and growing gap behind ‘Entry Requirements’ and achieved grades of entering cohorts.

It is awful, though.

@noblegiraffe I really do apologise for chasing you up yesterday over the question of whether you would support changes to the A level academic calendar in support of a better admissions system.

It is so frustrating to admissions tutors that people generally do support this until it becomes clear that their own group would be required to make changes. It is great to know that schools are thinking about changing the academic calendar anyway and that in theory these two reforms may be compatible. Thank you

Not heard of that. Why would they do that..

We have asked 3 unis directly if they wiil consider an application wuth grades under requirements - two said no, one asked for GCSEs and subjects and then said yes. Worth asking directly.

Not heard of that. Why would they do that..

We have asked 3 unis directly if they wiil consider an application wuth grades under requirements - two said no, one asked for GCSEs and subjects and then said yes. Worth asking directly.

I should have said two who said no were high tier Econ, not in clearing. One who said yes top uni but had Econ in clearing at BBB from AAA last year. If DC ends up wanting to apply to any with lower predictions than required I will ask if the app will be considered or not. There is a thread with lots of clearing grades on it, if a uni was in clearing & what grades is a key consideration alongside UCAS most common grades etc.

I’m not sure how this system could be more confusing tbh.

@Bufftailed Why would a course not in clearing accept lower grades? They surely don’t need to. Economics has elite unis and a few who are popular in the next rung down.

Has anyone considered starting uni courses in January and running from January to January? Why is it that schools should change?

Worth an email to get it clarified if DC is keen to apply. Takes a few minutes and you lose nothing. I’m not talking elite…you could assume the top uni we asked would say no (previous year clearing isn’t a guarantee), but they didn’t.

Oddly, one little corner of the academic world does effectively sort everything out well before exam season. In art, drama, and music courses in middle- and lower-tariff universities (which have absorbed a lot of historic and well-respected art/music schools between them) unconditional offers are still relatively common, based on portfolios or auditions respectively.

It seems to work Just Fine, and most students who get those offers continue to sit their A-levels anyway!

January start degrees exist! They’re not popular with school leavers though - not enough time to work/travel, accommodation difficulties. Hence it tends to be courses that attract older students that have additional January (and Easter) intakes - often healthcare courses.

@MeetMeOnTheCornera January to January university year is a fab idea! Problem solved and as you say, the school year just remains the same

@titchy Would the travel time not be the same? Or more? Exams could actually be a bit later. DD had art ones in late spring term. Finish in June, results in August, apply immediately with grades and yes/no before Xmas. Yes, I know the universities might not be keen but do other countries do this? I’m not sure but could it be scaled up? Would autumn holidays be so bad?

The problem with Jan starts for 18 year olds is what do they do between June and December. Those that want a gap year want a full year (six months to work, six to travel). What if they can’t find work - does the Gov want a few hundred thousand 18 year olds claiming UC? Do they extend child benefit?

Your suggestion about changing the university calendar only has been mooted, @MeetMeOnTheCorner . But it leaves a long window of idleness for uni-bound YP, putting them out of step with their peers. For those who change plans during the application process, most of the best alternative employment opportunities are gone.

There is a strong worldwide cultural affinity for first semester heading into Winter; witness the reversal in Australasia.

Apologies to @MeetMeOnTheCorner and @titchy for my late, now redundant post. I wrote it earlier and attempted unsuccessfully to post it then.

I love how this thread has evolved—from misinformation of unis blacklisting potential students when they reject you in round 1, to who does/doesn’t adhere to their AAB “sticker price”, to January-December school years. 😂

@poetryandwine Well it could be a productive period! Some dc do need to mature a bit. University is for the long haul. Some dc could continue working and some could definitely benefit. I accept for some subjects it’s not ideal but we have summer school holidays based on harvests! We can change if we want to.