Black Mark on UCAS File Before Clearing?

[CowTown]

Someone mentioned to me that DC shouldn’t put courses they are at risk of not getting an offer for. Their reasoning is that if DC is rejected at this stage, they will have a black mark from that particular uni department on their UCAS file, and will have problems getting through clearing there. Their advice is that if DC is under the required grades, they shouldn’t put the course on their application, because if the course goes into clearing with lower grades (which it historically does), they’ll be able to get in through clearing on results day if they don’t have this black mark on their record. That if they were initially rejected, the uni will say no at the clearing stage.

Is there any truth to this?

My view (and I am not in uni admissions; but I have seen many YP go through this process as a parent and a teacher) –

Clearing varies so much from year to year so as you say, it's no guarantee – DD got in through clearing and her course was in at a much lower offer the next year; but another course she enquired about was not in clearing at all the following year.

With the grades you state, and PGs of BBB, one or (maybe) two listings at ABB would be reasonable. Bear in mind that PGs are a teacher's assessment of a YP's best day – and IME are often over what is achieved. So PGs of BBB may translate to CCC. They may be achieved of course.

PGs of BBB I would personally list ABB/ABB (or another BBB)/BBB/BBB/BCC if I could find five that offered those grades that were suitable in other ways.

Yes you might well get offers from the ABB unis. They will probably be ABB tho.

I have never heard of the black mark aspect you are asking about, but I don't know anyone who tried to get in through clearing to a uni that had earlier rejected them. IME clearing, certainly initially, is someone on a phone with a grade offer. We rang one place that was offering ABB in clearing and ABC was not acceptable. They are a person answering the phone with no discretion IME. But equally, unlikely to have a list of "people you must not offer to"!

@lunis If all five come back without an offer, UCAS Extra lets an applicant add further choices one at a time before Clearing opens, so it isn't five strikes and out.

Does it have to be all five? Say you apply to five and get two rejections, will UCAS allow you to make another two applications?

AFAIK it’s only for students with 0 offers. Otherwise there would be thousands and thousands of additional applications to process.

Edit - sorry I'd misread your post!

You can only use Extra if you hold no offers - either none were made or you've rejected the ones made.

Thanks @CowTown and @tardive ...that makes sense

Ah sorry. I understand now. Yes and no (for me). If I have rejected someone because they were useless at interview I will reject them at clearing without another interview. If I rejected them previously without interview I will then interview them at clearing. If I had interviewed them before and they were OK but others scored higher I will interview them again (more informal this time)

I think a lot of the time non interviewing programmes will reject due to grades/predicted grades as they are hoping for the best students. But if by clearing they have spaces and the student meets the new clearing tariff they shouldn't be rejected I don't believe.

Some of these clearing offers will be for international students only

I have never heard of this!
Most schools encourage pupils to choose a combination of around 1-2 aspirational unis, 2 at predicted grades, and 1-2 safe unis ie ones that they almost certainly would meet the standard offer. Therefore statistically, many students will receive rejections from some unis. I have never heard of any pattern of them being rejected through clearing following an earlier rejection - unless their grades are still too low for the clearing offer.
Don't forget, ultimately the student has to pick 2 unis out of the offers they receive, so it is likely that they will have to reject some offers.
Unis with places in clearing want to fill their current spaces - they are really not going to worry that they rejected a student on the first application!

I checked this—these were the domestic student grades. The higher tier unis did have a lot of international only clearing spaces (from what I observed on the courses I was researching).

We used open days to gauge likelihood of admission even when grades are slightly lower than their advertised admission grades.

Some said, go for it while others have said no, not a chance! It's all down to what else your DC has to offer that will help them with their course choices and post graduation.

Never heard of black listing students.

@CowTown which subject are you looking into - different subjects can be treated differently (although I have never heard of this black mark theory for any uni/subject).

We were told this in a subject talk at one of the higher tier unis—grades are AAB and they will not accept anything lower. This is also reflected in their 2023-2025 average grades on UCAS—AAA, as well as their 2026 clearing—AAB international only (and no reduction in grades).

The mid-tier unis seem more opaque, which is why I’m confused on what the “real” minimum is for applications.

You're getting muddled where no muddling is needed. Higher tier universities that are popular every year and don't use clearing much are the ones you need to worry about. They may have some lower-ranked courses that do end up in clearing, and they probably want to put off a BBB candidate from first-round applications for those courses because they want their ABB course places that come through to clearing to go to the people who were predicted AAA and hold an AAB offer for a prestigious and popular course, then had some bad days and dropped down to ABB and can be bumped down in clearing to the lower course. Any course that can fill all its places with enthusiastic applicants who meet the published minimum grades obviously aren't going to drop those standards.

The ones who you say are "more opaque" are opaque because your DC will probably be fine getting a place there. It would be damaging and offputting if they say out loud, 'it's totally fine, we will drop our requirements as low as we have to and do whatever it takes to fill the course registrations' - obviously they would lose the few higher-calibre applicants they get if they are that honest, so they bumble and deflect and don't answer the question.

You need to speak to the course lead. The talks are designed to encourage/ discourage certain students.

DD got a place at a higher tier uni despite having lower grades. Speaking to them and doing a follow up definitely helped. She also had worked for a year in her chosen field of study, so had something else to offer.

And nope they don't struggle with applicants but her course has a high drop out rate, so for the uni it's about commitment as well - something DD could demonstrate she had. But without reaching out to the course lead, and just listening to the talk, I don't think DD would have bothered applying as she didn't meet the on paper criteria.

It's definitely not an easy task to find the right university and course for DC. There are so many variables to consider.

Don't forget Clearing is also there for students who exceeded their PGs/offers. The higher ranked unis, if they have spaces, will likely hold them for students who want to 'upgrade'.

Yes, thanks—the opaque ones are trying to protect their image and obviously want to attract the AAB students in an ideal world. My DC is not going to be applying to the hardline AAB course with average previous attainment of AAA.

Hi, OP -

I was an admissions tutor in a high tariff, now very high tariff, programme during the years when we were making our standard offer higher. A couple of times during these years were the only times AFAIK we have been in Clearing.

Generally one prefers applicants who have already applied, showing interest in the School’s programmes, to those approaching for the first time in Clearing. We would defer decisions on anyone at a level we might conceivably use for a Clearing standard, and make decisions on them ahead of Clearing. Of course anyone at the Clearing standard was admitted. This worked well.

I can envision a scenario in which there are many applications for a degree programme and a high degree of confidence early in the admissions cycle. Applicants who are at a certain level (that will later become the Clearing standard) are rejected early on. Then, nightmare, offers are not converted to acceptances, and those early rejections are regretted. But there is nothing to be done - except to hope the applicants might forgive the hubris and come back during Clearing.

I, too, say Bollocks.

CCD what is that?

Another one saying bollocks. Most unis would prefer an applicant they had previously rejected if anything because they’re likely to not drop out.

Given the clearing grades (sensible to monitor these!) I wouldn’t anticipate any rejections even with BBB predictions.

Edit to add: internally we do talk about a ‘sticker price’

Some mid tier unis do indeed adopt the system of asking for higher grades and then discounting every clearing. Seems bizarre to me but it must have a purpose.
I’ll use example of Lancaster law. It’s AAB now. Yet every clearing it’s there at ABB or BBB for home students. Anyone likely to get AAB will probably have a punt at a higher ranked or RG university. Why not advertise now at ABB?
For DD’s course we found many wanted really high grades or much lower grades and nothing in middle and some that pop up every clearing at the lower grade point.
Some in this mid tier range seem to also run an our usual grades are X but your PS was so amazing we will offer a grade lower type thing to make students feel the uni really wants them.
I think your new car analogy is spot on that there’s this understanding that what they ask for isn’t necessarily what’s needed.
I’d ask questions at open days and have some aspirational choices.
I’d also add another category to look at where there’s potential to take English students with slightly lower grades in some Scottish or NI universities. RUK is a separate category and they want students paying full English fees.

No expert knowledge, but just based on common sense this sounds like bollocks to me too. I have no experience of University admissions beyond my own children, but I have interviewed many people for jobs in my organisation, and whilst there have been a few people where I have said "I would not employ this candidate under any circumstances" most unsuccessful candidates would probably actually have been fine in the post, they were just beaten on the day by someone even stronger. A previous rejection wouldn't stop me interviewing someone again in most circumstances. In fact I only got one of my own previous jobs the third time I applied. Just because you weren't at the top of the list one day doesn't mean you won't make the cut on a future occasion.
I can't believe things operate massively different when it comes to University applications. The first tranche of offers presumably go to the applicants who score most highly on whatever criteria the admissions team use, and then if there are places left on results day they'll look at other people who are interested and meet the clearing requirements. Given the financial pressures Universities are under I can't believe anyone wants empty places or would shoot themselves in the foot by "blacklisting" all previously rejected candidates. There might be a few applicants who for some reason unrelated to grades were considered unsuitable but I'd imagine that the majority don't get offers because others scored higher, not because they are instrinsically "bad" candidates.

My dd changed her mind about the course between accepting offers and getting her results. She went through clearing and got a fantastic uni and the preferred course. There was no fear that any of her clearing choices were going to reject her because they had rejected her during the first round iyswim?

Also thinking about it, when DD went through clearing, I was there to support and she got a number of offers without IIRC having to give much info. I mean she must have given her name at some point, but I am pretty sure when we rang unis with the clearing offer matching her grades, they basically said "yes fine, you have an offer, now what's your name and what maths/Eng grade did you get at GCSE?" so no suggestion of "hang on while I check my list of Doom".

Equally if she rang unis where the clearing offer was still above her grades, as I say, it was "what grades have you got?" and when they did not match it was just a flat "no". Grade based rather than DD-name based :D

So to sum up, yes bollocks. Also a logistical nightmare on a day that frankly already ticks that box for everyone. Why add another layer of complexity?

List of Doom ❤️

So we have a potential scenario where a student is predicted BBB applying to a uni who state entry requirements as ABB. They get an ABB offer and on the day they get BBC. But the uni still accepts them as the clearing requirements are BBC?

Is that actually something that could actually happen?