How does this work for universities’ teaching?

[DasEnglischesWetter]

If you’re at university, how well do the teachers get to know you?

I’m thinking of Sixth Form and how the teachers that teach you know your name; care about your success in exams and university applications; say how are you when they see you walking about the school; and there’s just a general warm connection that makes you feel noticed and welcome.

I know university is much more independent-orientated, but is there anyone/anything that replicates that at university?

Maybe in seminars since they are small group teachings? I’m not sure about lecturers.

Obviously Oxbridge are different since they are not only collegiate but they have supervisions/tutorials and directors of studies who may get to know you well. But, even then I’m not sure.

I know personal tutors/academic advisors exist but it’s not really the same thing.

Is there anyway to replicate that Sixth Form student-teacher relationship?

How about when it comes to academic critique/praise? In school, teachers will point out where you are struggling since they know you personally or will be very congratulatory if you succeed. What’s that like at university? When marking your work, do they even know who you are so that when you go up to them you can ask them personally? If they mark it as being really good are they saying that with a deadpan expression since they don’t actually care about you or know you?

Again, maybe Oxbridge is different.

I teach lectures with 200 students in them in which I don’t know any of them unless they come to talk afterwards or seek out my office hours, and also seminar groups of 16 or so, where obviously I’ll know everyone by name. Assignments will get the same type of feedback in either case — I’m evaluating the work, not congratulating an individual. People are welcome to come and discuss their feedback in my office hours. Exam scripts are anonymous, so I don’t know whose work I’m marking.

But how far frequent do students get the same teacher in their seminars ie is it a new seminar teacher every seminar or every few weeks or do seminar teachers stay for an entire year the same?

Firstly, they are Lecturers.

The Lecturing and interaction with students will only be about 1/3 of their job, in many cases, as they are researchers first and foremost.

Secondly, this will vary wildly, depending on both subject and individual University.

Thirdly, some courses are lucky enough to have experts come in to do a one off lecture, or a short course as part of the year.

Fourthly, many people do their A-levels at 6th form college which is very different from staying on at school, and often seen as a bit of a stepping stone between school and University. At University, they are adults who have chosen to go and study a subject. The staff are employed to share their knowledge. It is obviously a very different relationship from that with a teacher at school, where you are a child, and the teacher might have seen you grow and develop from the 11 yr old that started there 7 years previously.

Lecturers, not teachers. Modules generally last for a semester. My seminars are two hours a week for twelve weeks, for instance. Lecture courses are sometimes team-taught by a variety of different staff, though.

And, let’s face it, university students are adults. They’ll be allocated a personal tutor, but it’s not like school. It’s up to the student to take responsibility for their own learning.

What course are you talking about because as a lecturer I teach on nursing courses and we do have to get to know the students as supervisors because we sign a good health and character reference to put them on the professional register. So more details would be useful.

Universities are not big schools. Students are adults and the academic team is there to support their academic endeavours. Pastoral and welfare support is available if the student asks for it. Students are usually assigned a personal tutor.

If it’s a very small class lecturers probably can’t help but learn students’ names, but they’re not tracking them down in the common room checking they’re up to date with their reading.

I went to uni as a mature student (early 40s) so obviously had much more in common with the lecturers than the other students. I networked ruthlessly, got myself co-opted onto various departmental committees and pushed myself onto postgrad events even when I was an undergrad. I can honestly say that all the lecturers in the department knew my name. I was never short of opportunities both academic and social. Its doubtful that a 20 year old would have had the hutzpa to do that. Putting yourself out there and knowing where the power dynamics lie is just as important as being academically able when it comes to uni success.

I worked in Academia from 2010 to 2016. I had personal tutees that I got to know very well. As another PP this was in nursing so it is quite a different kettle of fish. I also supported students in practice so probably had a meaningful relationship with 100+ students. I marked anonymously but gave detailed feedback including praise where it was due.

My daughter is doing a history degree now, her academic advisor (essentially personal tutor) is genuinely worse than useless. She has barely met her and hardly ever responds to emails. Having said that she has a very good relationship with a couple of other lecturers whose courses she has taken.

She has also taken many opportunities and created others so I would say that a number of the course staff and professional service staff know who she is.

I am there for my personal tutees (online during travel, in an emergency). I also learn names of seminar students pretty quickly. Other students will need to approach me if we are to become acquainted. When they do, I am happy to greet them in passing, make casual conversation, etc.

I genuinely enjoy seeing students during office hours (or occasionally by appointment) as do a number of colleagues. This is very different from when they drop by spontaneously, however. Chances that one is free to talk are nearly nil, and no matter how polite, this is always awkward. (They should know from many explanations that dropping by isn’t done, but nevertheless ….and women get more of this).

The posts above have captured the key differences with school and college pretty well, I think. University is meant to develop independent thinkers. Nevertheless it us a process, and there is a lot more help available - in an orderly fashion - than most students seem to realise, or access. They must take the initiative.

I am sorry about your DD’s PT, @Princessdebthe1st .

If you want a more school like environment then some further education colleges offer degrees accredited by universities. A couple of people I know did that and it was tiny size classes. Both accredited by post 92 universities.
The one set up by the footballers in Manchester UA92 offers a school like set up with morning or afternoon classes. It’s accredited by Lancaster.
My dd is at a large traditional uni and I doubt anyone knows her name and she likes it that way. Some of her lectures are huge hundreds of students.

I teach at an RG university. Most undergrad lectures are 100 or more students and I have no idea who they all are. Formal marking is all anonymous. Students have personal tutors and (if they bother to show up) they will get personal support. I also have 3rd yr project students and MSc students in my lab. Those students are the ones where I know their names and discuss academic progress and write references for their future jobs.

there is also disability support for neurodivergent students and a variety of types of counselling etc. but the university is very big. Students have to seek out personal support but it is there.

It really depends on the course, the modules and the university.
In my department we get to know our students really well. The module leader for a large module won’t know all the students but these large group lectures are followed by seminars. Each seminar group is run by a member of staff who will run that seminar for the duration of the module.
Staff running smaller modules will get to know the students on that module pretty well.

We also allocate each student a personal Tutor who meets with them at least 5 times a year.

It also depends on how the student interacts with staff too. Those that make an effort in seminars, turn up to meetings and engage with the course will get to know staff better.

How about when it comes to academic critique/praise? In school, teachers will point out where you are struggling since they know you personally or will be very congratulatory if you succeed. What’s that like at university? When marking your work, do they even know who you are so that when you go up to them you can ask them personally? If they mark it as being really good are they saying that with a deadpan expression since they don’t actually care about you or know you?

Marks aren’t given verbally. In most cases assignments are uploaded to the VLE and marked electronically using a rubric which students should have sight of while writing the assignment.
Written feedback is provided.
Marking is then moderated to ensure fairness and consistency.

Students won’t be contacted to be given praise or additional feedback. We’re pleased when our students do well but we aren’t giving constant feedback. We expect students to seek support if they think they need it.
In some cases students might give the opportunity to submit formative or draft work for feedback but there will be certain parameters around what we can look at.

ds2 had nearly 400 on his course & each module seemed to have a different leader. He got feedback on his assignments but I think only built up a relationship with his dissertation supervisor along the lines you are thinking. ds1 knew his lecturers and vice versa better but that was because his course size was much smaller (around 40 doing his suboption). Basically if you want this kind of mentorship you need to pick a course with a small cohort.

Obviously Oxbridge are different since they are not only collegiate but they have supervisions/tutorials and directors of studies who may get to know you well.

Oxford and Cambridge are not the only universities that have small group tutorials.

Obviously I can’t speak for every university, but you can get to know some students very well indeed. Some stay in contact after they graduate. I recently met up with one of mine who graduated 15 years ago.

As others have said, you tend to get to know the students who engage better than the ones who don’t.

I used to be a lecturer at a RG uni (STEM subject).

As others have said, lecturers not teachers at university.

University learning is traditionally referred to as "reading for a degree", not "being taught a degree". This difference in terminology reflects the different expectations between learning at school and learning at university. University should be about becoming an independent thinker in your field, not just learning formulae to pass exams.

There is often less formative assessment (assessment which monitors progress and provides ongoing feedback) and most of the assessment is summative (designed to evaluate your work to give a mark which will go towards your degree classification). It is simply not feasible to be setting large amounts of formative assessment as lecture sizes are often 200+ students, across a 4 year degree that's 800 students. Instead, students need to learn to be capable of critiquing their own work and developing solid academic arguments. It can be argued that too much assessment and feedback actually hinders the process of deeper learning because students simply become focused on the next assessment and the next grade.

Personal tutors will tend to know their tutees reasonably well and there are specific pastoral care roles which are not the responsibility of the lecturers.

University lecturers are in a very different job to school teachers.

Many post-92 universities though do tend to have staff on more teaching-focused contracts because they tend to be less research intense. At these the staff may get to know students better than at RG universities.