Potentially discriminatory extra time exam rules?

[Aleiha]

Just really wanted to sense check this.

DD is at a top ranking University and is entitled to extra time in exams due to having a disability. This is not disputed by the University which has given her 25% extra time. This is also what she had during A levels and GCSEs.

She is studying an essay based subject (history) and has had her first exam today and discovered that the university have extended the four hour exam to five hours. This is fine but they have applied the extra time to all students sitting the exam. This includes those with a disability and those without. The rationale from the university is that those who don't need the extra time won't use it and those who do need it can then use it.

Its a online open book exam (two essays) and so clearly everyone will use the extra time.

Is this a correct application of the rules? My understanding was that the extra time is supposed to alleviate any disadvantage she suffers due to her disability.

Yes this! (You beat me to it @CaesarAugusta !)

I don’t get the issue - exams aren’t a competition?

so why does it matter if everyone get the same time so long as your daughter has enough time to finish?

You most certainly do not need an EHCP to get extra time. You can game the system with an educational psychologist (go purposely slowly on the testing). I think you may be out of touch with how straightforward it can be for some families to get extra time for their children. Did you see the PP saying 69 / 112 kids got 25% extra time in the A level paper she was invigilating? How do you explain that?

OP is talking about university. JCQ guidance is not relevant.

Wven if OP was talking about examinations covered by JCQ guidance, you are wrong. Standardised scores and a Form 8 only apply to applications made under the learning difficulties criteria without an EHCP. You do not need standardised scores for applications made for other disabilities which need a Form 9.

But making, say 15 points rather than 14 wouldn't have made a difference. The difference between grades will be in the quality of argument not how much you regurgitate.

Well that will entirely depend on the question. If the question asks to give the reasons why a particular period in history resulted in something happening (clearly I'm not a history graduate!!) then if there are three main reasons and a candidate only gets around to discussing two then it clearly would make a difference.

Anyway, as I have said a couple of times now, I take the point about it not being comparative like A levels. It doesn't seem like the 25% is necessarily enough extra time though so she will talk to the learning support team.

And my experience of the student support people is that some of them have NO idea about particular ways of teaching (eg the Socratic method, and collaborative knowledge making through discussion). They infantilise students by enabling them to stay within their fears, rather than helping them with strategies to get beyond their anxiety. We've even had to have discussion about wether we require attendance at seminars and practical sessions. Because "some students" are disadvantaged by having to attend.

This gives some reassurance although given the nature of the subject I struggle to see how there is not any element of comparative marking that goes on.

We mark anonymously, and we mark via criteria reference not distribution. Believe me, we have too much to mark to compare, nor do we know whom we're marking! To mark in the way you're suggesting would be very unprofessional.

We are experts at this, remember.

I'm saying that's ONE of the ways to be entitled to extra time at GCSE/A Level.

I can't explain that- I think I literally said that in my original post?

ETA- I didn't! I did explain I think there's a range of factors contributing to the exponential rise in access arrangements.

I do think there's a shocking wealth gap and I completely take on board the points pp are making about those who are disadvantaged missing out. It's an interesting thread and it's good hearing from a range of people from different backgrounds.

I know, I was referring to plenty of pp who were talking about GCSE/ A Levels.

At what amount of extra time do people think that a student who is only capable of and working at a 3rd suddenly morphs into one performing at a 2:1 or 1st level? An extra hour? 2 hours? 5 hours?

They just won't!

If they have sufficient time to complete the paper, they'll work at their full level.

Giving them more time than sufficient won't suddenly make them work at a higher level than they're inherently capable of.

The only students who will gain by being given extra time are those who actually need extra time, regardless of whether or not they have a diagnosis.

Think about an essay assignment though….students have weeks and weeks to write the perfect essay. Very few get above 70%. So even with all the time and resources they still don’t get those grades.

She was given the extra time though. They can't just keep expanding the amount of time indefinitely.
If usually she manages with 25% extra time she can't suddenly object to it because everyone else had the extra time too. That's not a rational objection it's one based in wanting "more" than others

I can understand the idea tbh. Not everyone will use the the time. I studied history at uni and never in my life have I used the whole time for an exam, let alone 5 hours which is ages.

I have already said multiple times that I accept the point that it's not graded on a curve like A levels.

She has never said that she deserves more time than anyone else FGS.

As I said, you were still wrong even if talking about exams covered by JCQ guidance. If you knew, it is surprising you posted incorrect information even if you were talking about A levels and GCSEs which are covered by JCQ’s guidance.

No, I wasn't, I appreciate your clarification about the learning disability criteria though.

The information you posted was incorrect, though. You said you either needed an EHCP or standardised scores meeting the criteria. That is wrong. You can get extra time at GCSE and A levels without either of those.

I didn’t mention learning disabilities. I mentioned learning difficulties. Two different things.

Absolutely correct @scoopofmintchocchipicecream.

Agree^^.
OP says her DD isn't saying "she deserves more time than anyone else FGS". DD may not be saying that, but OP it seems that you are. It's like the extra time your DD is being given is meaningless if it's not literally more than the non-diagnosed students.

Quite.

And that reminded me the best university essay I ever wrote (I got 100% - they said it was "nearly publishable") was written in two days after I had spent several weeks failing to do any work because a friend had died in a horrific accident. No special dispensations or extensions, because I couldn't find the words to ask for them. It's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking endless extra time will give some huge advantage. Really it can just steal from time you could spend doing something else

But it is what you are saying. She was given 25% extra but because other people had that option too it's no longer good enough. But it's clear that's the reason you were unhappy whereas normally 25% extra felt satisfactory

This simply isn't how it works, there has to be evidence of persistent and significant difficulties and the student's normal way of working.

Oh give it rest. I came on here to ask the question. I literally said in my OP that I was trying to sense check it and get my head around it. Clearly it works differently at degree level than a A level stage.

She's an 18 year old kid with a significant learning issue. Not everyone writes 100% correct nearly publishable essays.

Honestly, I came on to sense check something and to understand but every single thread has to turn bitchy.

I am now fully expecting a torrent of posts flaming me and saying she's an "adult".

I sympathise with your position. I'm a fan of the extra time for all approach, as I've said. However, if the point of the extra time for all is that nobody struggles for time, then that should apply to your daughter too. It was predictable that, if the timings were adjusted for everyone else but not for those with accommodations, those with or needing accommodations might struggle for time still.

I would have considered extending your daughter's time and making that the total time for the exam for everyone. (At which stage I think I'd be looking at a two paper exam, or at shortening the whole thing to three hours one question too!)