Potentially discriminatory extra time exam rules?

[Aleiha]

Just really wanted to sense check this.

DD is at a top ranking University and is entitled to extra time in exams due to having a disability. This is not disputed by the University which has given her 25% extra time. This is also what she had during A levels and GCSEs.

She is studying an essay based subject (history) and has had her first exam today and discovered that the university have extended the four hour exam to five hours. This is fine but they have applied the extra time to all students sitting the exam. This includes those with a disability and those without. The rationale from the university is that those who don't need the extra time won't use it and those who do need it can then use it.

Its a online open book exam (two essays) and so clearly everyone will use the extra time.

Is this a correct application of the rules? My understanding was that the extra time is supposed to alleviate any disadvantage she suffers due to her disability.

I don’t think your daughter is disadvantaged by this at all. She is receiving the extra 25% she is allowed.
As others have pointed out, as long as it’s not graded on a curve which it seems it’s not, the grades others achieve won’t affect her grade at all.
So I wouldn’t use up any energy worrying about the fact that other students are getting extra time, because it honestly doesn’t affect her at all in any way possible. And I just wouldn’t use up my time worrying about fairness.
Once she leaves uni, any one looking at her grades won’t know what others have achieved in her class, so if everyone did get a first it wouldn’t devalue it.

I think you are misunderstanding.

Most students will only need 4 hours to sit the exam. They will run out of things to say etc. There will only be so many succinct, high quality points/quotations/sources to reference. The staff will have set the exam on the basis that 4 hours is enough time. For most people, spending longer than is necessary doesn't improve the quality of their output, it can actually worsen it.

Your DD will need longer, and will use the full time to cover the same work.

By simply offering longer without restriction, they can
a) include students who may not have been diagnosed or who are quietly struggling
b) ensure that a student who has a bad day has the best opportunity to demonstrate their knowledge
c) reduce administrative burden
d) reduce the "othering" of students given "extra time".

I don't really see what the issue is.

Come on OP, if the exam is 4 hours, she’s getting 5! Surely that’s bough time! How on earth is she disadvantaged by having FIVE hours? They’ll all be shattered by then anyway.

You really need to see it that university study isn't a competition between the students. They aren't being ranked. They are studying and demonstrating their application of sufficient, detailed knowledge to earn a degree.

You will at some stage have to accept that humans are all different, with varying skills and abilities, the pitch is never going to be completely "level". In the workplace people will thrive in different teams, and accomodations won't always be possible (the client won't give you extra time to get project across the line!), and people tend to gravitate towards workplaces/occupations that suit them & reward their strengths.

The extra time is not given to her against students, it is given to her to allow her to perform at her best given her disability.

It’s because anyone can get an ADHD diagnosis now, they just go and list symptoms, pay £1000 and then get a diagnosis and then are allowed extra time. It’s really common found where I live for parents to coach their kids on what to say to the tester. It’s all such a farce. the uni have no way of working out who really needs it anymore. Might as well let everyone have extra time 🤷‍♀️

But surely your focus should be on your dd and whether she gets adequate time, which she appears to be getting, as the four hours is increased to five? It seems you’re more focused on the ones without a disability who also get longer, which is irrelevant, unless you’re looking at it as a competition.

You are assuming that everyone could write the perfect answer if they had enough time. I don’t think this is going to be true. If it was true and everyone was as good as each other but some of them were slower, shouldn’t all the slow people be given enough time?

You’re not realising that it’s not a case of ‘if everyone has as much time as possible they will all get top grades’. Not everyone would get a first if they had 50 hours because they’re learning and implementing skills, techniques and information that they’ve been taught through the year and not everyone will have been to all the lectures or taken in the information. Some people will do badly no matter the time, some will do better for having the 5 hours but most will do about the same because it’s about what they’ve learnt, the work they’ve put in prior to the exam and their natural talent.

Some people will still fail. Some will do well. Some will leave after 2 hours, others 4. Others will do better because they need extra time but couldn’t access it before. Your daughter will do exactly as well as she would have done with the 4hrs + 25% because she is still getting that time and it doesn’t change her grade that others are also getting that time.

Also remember if everyone got extra time due to disability it would be the same outcome. She would get the same grades even if they had extra time for that reason.

Wouldn't they be in the same room anyway?
I dont know how universities work but DC school had up to 3 exams with different finish times and extra time happening in one room....

Universities may not generally mark on a curve, but they do scale marks on modules or assessments where the average is unusually high or low. I would want to know if this assessment ended up with a high average and/or was scaled. If it did, that would suggest everyone getting extra time did provide an advantage.

I think this is how all exams will end up (I’m an access arrangements assessor)

It does seem odd to apply extra time to all but I agree with the poster who said more time could actually be less effective for those who don't need it. I'm sure some will be furious that it's now 5 hours - FIVE HOURS! That can surely feel like an overwhelming length of time.

Over 40% of private school kids now get extra time so I'm not surprised some establishments are looking at this. In some cases parents at very competitive schools are paying for the privilege just to boost chance of higher grades. It's quite sickening when they're alongside kids who genuinely need it. The rule is applied across all subjects regardless of what the need is too.

At my DC’s school, they were given a test to determine whether they would be given extra time in year 10. It seemed lots knew you needed to not ‘finish’ the test and then they would be awarded extra time in all exams. Now my DC tells me 70% of the year gets extra time in their GCSEs including lots of students who are on track to receive 9s because some knew to ‘fail’ the test. This is unfair as there are others who obviously need it due to dyslexia, adhd, autism etc and then there are the honest kids who fairly completed this timed test in good faith and don’t get extra time.

I think it’s a really good idea. I’ve always thought time-limited testing was unreasonable, though I understand that you can’t expect invigilators to be still sitting there at midnight for that one student who won’t stop.

Come on now, five hours was fine when she was getting it but other students weren’t. You want the other students to be disadvantaged in comparison.

This doesn't happen across all courses / universities. I've worked at several and I've only known it happen when there is a dramatic variation in the grades and a problem with the module. But I agree that OP's daughter could ask whether this will happen in her case

Taking all of this onboard as I think it through. I accept the point entirely on the three day exams they are given. In this case nobody is going to be sitting the exam for the full three days so nobody is being disadvantaged by time pressures.

in this exam it was two essays on two very different topics in five hours. DD was barely finished and was pushed for time and says her second essay was far worse than her first.

I am thinking it through to get my head around it. The university policy says that in exam A situations everyone is given 250% of the time it should take and so no individual extra time is given (this is the 3/5 day exams) but in exam B situations she ought to have individual extra time. This is an exam B situation.

Reasonable adjustments are about making an equitable playing field. I don't see how giving everyone additional time does this.

I, as a conscientious perfectionist would spend the full five hours working, despite the fact I need it less than someone who is dyslexic and needs more processing time. It gives me a distinct advantage, which has no bearing upon the other students, apart from fairness. Is it also indirect discrimination via the equality act??

I do think there's a problem with the number of students recieving extra time in exams, and the percentage of access arrangements in independent v state schools, but that's a whole different thread, as is the need for timed exams 🤣

No. The lecturers believe that 4 hours is the time needed to write a good answer. Not 5. So she has got more time.

Nope, different rooms. I am going to see about changing this as it’s becoming impossible to manage.

I agree with you, it’s not extra time if everyone has it.

If we do this at my university the exam is actually, say 2 hours, and they have 5 hours to complete it. This is largely to avoid 3 million emails about the system going down, or the fact that they got distracted at the last minute when submitting and forgot to submit it for 20 mins and missed the deadline (yes we get these emails!)

I would say usually those with learning plans would get 25% more but perhaps this is a universal design initiative. We don't mark on the curve we mark against criteria so as long as there has been consideration of extra time to do the assignment NOT extra time vs other people then this should be sufficient.

Your DD should also have a coversheeet that flags her learning plan adjustments so the marker should take that into account.

This isn’t right, she should go back again and point out that she’s supposed to get 25% more time than those without adjustments. I expect the administrator has made a mistake.

Can she speak to the disability office (or whoever manages adjustments)about it and get them to lobby on her behalf?

I think you are assuming that because more time helps your DD, it must help everyone. Remember, it will be a tough exam - your DDs struggles with it may not only be her processing speed but also simply that this is more challenging academic material.

For many students, they will either leave early, or will waste that hour. Writing too much can actually weaken a script. University level work is often looking for succinct, concise style - an ability to be selective and prioritise the most valuable points in your argument.