Potentially discriminatory extra time exam rules?

[Aleiha]

Just really wanted to sense check this.

DD is at a top ranking University and is entitled to extra time in exams due to having a disability. This is not disputed by the University which has given her 25% extra time. This is also what she had during A levels and GCSEs.

She is studying an essay based subject (history) and has had her first exam today and discovered that the university have extended the four hour exam to five hours. This is fine but they have applied the extra time to all students sitting the exam. This includes those with a disability and those without. The rationale from the university is that those who don't need the extra time won't use it and those who do need it can then use it.

Its a online open book exam (two essays) and so clearly everyone will use the extra time.

Is this a correct application of the rules? My understanding was that the extra time is supposed to alleviate any disadvantage she suffers due to her disability.

But I (and the academics) disagree. Unless you need more time (when surely it's a reasonable adjustment, regardless of whether or not you have a diagnosis) then extra time will not buy you extra marks, even in essay based questions. It's levelling the playing field, meaning that everyone that needs extra time gets it, regardless of whether they have a formal diagnosis.

It's better than a system whereby some people who need extra time don't get it because they don't have the privilege of a family with the financial means and academic capability to have fought for a diagnosis for them.

Exactly! (And I say that as someone able to pay for a private diagnosis for my severely dyslexic daughter. Talking to the assessor it was clear a fair chunk of the people are just taking their children for an assessment in the hope they can "buy" extra time. Whereas I just wanted to know how to support her to manage at school)

Examiners are looking for quality not quantity at university level. I can only assume people who can't grasp this either didn't do an essay type subject or didn't do particularly well in it because they thought the route to success was just to regurgitate as much information as possible

That's fine, it's your opinion which differs to mine. It's interesting to hear from some academics on here and how they set exams.

I think it's only some academics who agree however. It doesn't appear to be a national university standard.

I agree with them in a way I always finished exams early and wood reread and sit there bored. I don’t see how an extra hour would help me.

The whole system needs an overhaul.

My dd was offered extra time (adhd) but declined it because she doesn't feel she needs it. There was no assessment of her specific needs to work out whether she actually needed extra time, it was just automatically on offer because she was in touch with the disability service about something which had nothing to do with exams.

I wonder if there are so many students getting extra time now that they're just applying it to everyone?

Your dd could ask to see the equality impact assessment that was conducted before they introduced the change in order to understand how they propose to ensure that people like her are not disadvantaged.

Quite a few unis are offering reasonable adjustments now without a diagnosis, because waiting lists are so long. This may be another reason why they are just making the extra time available to all.

I just pity the markers who will have to wade through extra pages of waffly bollocks if everyone has the extra time. In reality it depends what you want to test - do you want the person who can write the best well balanced, argued and coherent essay or do you want the person who can complete work within a tight time schedule. Probably why employers are increasingly doing their own tests and ignoring any degree and A level results.

But so what? Their grade doesn’t affect the grade of anyone else. Though I guess you could argue if it means everyone is getting higher grades and therefore her degree classification does it lessen her degree? Personally I don’t think it will make that much of a difference. Most degrees have a large proportion of written assignments and a weak student won’t do as well.

Yes I think that's a fair point.

Weak doesn't equal needing additional time though.

Does the extra time include regular breaks? 5 hours is a long time for someone with attention problems who finds it difficult to sit still and quiet.

In this situation I wonder what would happen to the people getting more than 25% extra time. If 25% is not enough for the OP's YP they can go back to the university disability team to discuss. I imagine that would be the way forward in this scenario if they feel they are still at a disadvantage due to disability.

I do think that universities who do this could be in trouble if challenged. The issues is that students without problems get the option of extra time if they want it, but students like OP's daughter do not - they get only what has been assessed as just enough time for students with their problems.

This really is nonsense. You cannot buy a diagnosis of severe dyslexia.

but grading lines are fixed in uni exams.

Well the argument on MN for not giving everyone extra time is that those who don’t have a disability wouldn’t make use of the extra time in any event.

I suspect it will benefit those who actually are in dire need of extra time, but for whatever reason haven’t gone down the diagnosis route and therefore are not identified as needing help by the university

Students can apply to be allowed to take breaks (accompanied). That's an accommodation we see quite often though in practice, very few use it. And any student can take a toilet break if feeling fidgety, or ask to be accompanied outside if feeling unwell.

Our online exams are 48 hours for the reasons @JulietteHasAGun outlines. We recommend they spend two hours on it and set word limits.

Though next year all are going back to in-person timed assessments because of AI. Now that will be interesting.

I can see why unis are starting to give everyone extra time when 69/112 kids get extra time in schools. If some are gaming the system and don't have a disability then it's not fair on people who don't game the system and they may as well give it to everyone

Do people realise you don't just need a diagnosis? (Certainly at GCSE/ALevel, I don't know how university works)

You need either an EHCP which contains years of evidence or need.

Or

You need testing either with an educational psychologist, or someone qualified to assess for access arrangements at level 7 (masters). You must have two scores that hit the criteria.

It can't just be, I think they've got ADHD so they need extra time 🤷🏻‍♀️.

It's definitely risen exponentially, but I think there's a lot of lifestyle and external factors coming into play.

It's not necessarily gaming the system . But that doesn't mean the unfairness shouldn't be acknowledged and planned for.
My daughter has severe dyslexia but I had to pay to have that diagnosed. We don't mind if others get extra time too, not everyone can afford to pay for the assessment .there will be children out there coping with undiagnosed dyslexia

In many ways it's an advantage when you are doing a series of exams to not spend more time than you need to in the exam room. I would rather finish my paper in the required time and then go for a nice walk and relax before the next exam! DSD was given extra time for her autism at GCSE but never used it as she preferred to come home and rest

This

OP , I get what your saying and as someone with dyslexia I would be upset too , giving everyone an extra hour is unfair, those who don’t need the time Will be able to go over the essay again to check things they may have missed When someone who generally needs the extra time isn’t going to have that it does put them at a disadvantage . I can’t see how people don’t see it

I am taking on board all the comments about the fact that university degrees are not graded on a curve. This gives some reassurance although given the nature of the subject I struggle to see how there is not any element of comparative marking that goes on. It's not like maths or science where it is right or wrong and once you've written down the correct answer there is no point delaying in submitting your answer. Its history, you can certainly potentially improve an answer with time to go back over it. She says that in her second essay she wanted to add a particular point but just didn't have the time to add it in.

Just to clarify DD has a formal diagnosis of severe dyslexia and has done since she was young. We were nervous about her doing History at university given the amount of reading required but it is her passion.

This was an open book exam sat in her room with access to texts, library etc but there are two types of exam - type A where they are all given say a week to do the "exam" and type B where they are producing under strict and pressurised time limited conditions. This was type B. The University says in type B exams she should be given extra time (I accept that she was given extra time alongside everyone else).

Interestingly, she has another exam this week for a different module where she is being individual given extra time. This is also a type B exam. This one is in person rather than online.

I appreciate this thread has turned into a more general discussion about extra time etc at university.

@CaesarAugusta You don’t need to be severe anything to get extra time ! You just need a professional to argue your case after you have paid them. It’s a huge con. It’s why we have so many degree holders who aren’t very good and are not employable in grad jobs.

First off, you don't need a diagnosis of 'severe dyslexia' (which is an unclear specification in itself) to be allocated 25% extra time! A PP gave the example of her daughter being the ok for extra time for ADHD even though she didn't need it. The one third of my daughter's A level class that got extra time did not have 'severe dyslexia'!
Second, you absolutely CAN pay for testing that quite often finds some issue - slow processing time or anxiety or what have you - that qualifies for 25% extra time.