French baccalaureate for engineering applications to UK universities

[chocolatebourbon]

Good afternoon ladies, My son is considering applying to do Engineering at a UK Uni (ideally with a focus on Automotive Engineering/Motorsport) for a 2027 start. He will have the French baccalaureate with maths snd physics/chem as specialities plus the ‘expert maths’ option. I have read before on here that for entry to high tarrif Unis the French baccalaureate is pretty uncompetitive compared to A-levels given that the French are obliged to spend a good chunk of time on languages, humanities etc so will be less specialised, less likely to do really well on mathematical aptitude tests etc. Does anybody have any real world experience of this? My son averages 17-18 (with 18-19 in maths and physics/chem) which on paper is enough for Oxbridge/Imperial but I’m not convinced of the reality. Also any general thoughts on Unis with a more practically focussed automotive/motorsport engineering course? He may decide not to apply high tariff but instead focus on places that are more closely aligned to his interests (eg Oxford Brookes and I think coventry have specific motorsport courses) but I’m not sure how sensible that would be. Or anybody whose DS/DD has stayed in the French system for engineering (as that is our other option but prob a ‘prépa intégré’ as he doesn’t want another 2 years at lycée).PS For UK, will likely be categorised as a home student for the purpose of fees so we won’t have the ‘international student’ advantage.

DD is at Brum. She had to get an average over 16 so it sound like your DS will be fine.

Oxford Brooks is the top place for motorsports, as you say, he should definitely apply there. The others would be aspirational and more generic, so probably not worth putting more than one down if you don't think he'd do well in the tests.

Thanks for your replies. Looks like we are researching in the right sort of area then. Wallywobbles, are you living in France or in the UK? How did your DD find the cultural transition if she was in France pre Uni?

Cambridge and Imperial use ESAT as part of the assessment process. This is an exam that he could prepare for, my understanding is the A Levels alone do not prepare candidates for this, extra work is required, probably with a knowledgeable teacher. My daughter tried.. but didn't do well, her A Level educated friend had extra lessons at school with a teacher who knew how to teach for this.. he did better.... but not well enough!
Imperial have a racing programme but it is very competitive.. https://www.imperialformularacing.com/

My daughter did the IB. I have the impression that the expectations were generally in line with A Levels.. not quite as simple as that but she got decent offers and was well prepared for University..

My daughter did the IB as well and neither she nor her school mates had any difficulty studying what they wanted where they wanted. Coventry or Oxford Brookes, as people have said, would be good choices for your son.

I advise French bac students on applying to the UK via UCAS. Your son's grades are excellent and would probably just be competitive enough for Oxbridge / Imperial if he was willing to aim for a more general engineering / science course as they don't offer automotive engineering. He would absolutely have to do very well in the extra tests as, basically, everyone applying to these unis are going to have excellent grades as well. If he's in Première now he has plenty of time to prepare for the tests.

Have you looked at Leeds or Loughborough? They both offer automative engineering, and your son would easily be in the running with his grades - they are looking for 14/15 minimum. They are definitely at the more academic end of the automative engineering spectrum. Oxford Brookes, Coventry, Huddersfield, Derby, Hertfordshire all offer motorsports. They are all fairly mid/low tier and the highest are only looking for BBB / 12/20 minimum. It's up to him / you if you want to specialise at this stage, given that academically he could aim much higher - then do a MEng specialising in motorsports later if that's still what he wants to do.

Has he done any related stages or internships? Taken part in any competitions etc?
Done wider reading or extra courses in his own time? He needs something other that just good grades to put in his personal statement.

If he stays in France, prépa classique is the kill or cure path. It's not just a couple more years at lycée, it's 'break you down and rebuild you from the shattered remains of your ego and wellbeing'... but if he survives and gets into one of the grande écoles, he's set for life - in a French environment at least. Prépa integré I don't know much about - just to be wary as you can end up shelling out a lot of money on fees, and once he's in he pretty much has to complete his five years at the same institution.

Oh and with his grades / subjects don't worry about the perceived gap between science subjects in French Bac / A levels. It mostly impacts students aiming for medicine / vet / biology etc as the SVT biology component and the Ph-Ch chemistry component are nowhere near the A level content. Maths is absolutely fine especially with Math Spé / Expertes combo. Physics, like I said he would have to prepare for the subject tests but given his grades he would be capable IF he wants the extra work.

finally, is he at a standard French Lycée? You probably need to find out of they can support students applying through ucas - there are parts of the application that only the school / counsellor can complete.

oh and check the English language requirements carefully - even if he’s a native speaker he’ll need to provide proof of English proficiency.

Thanks so much Minto, this is really helpful (even just as an independent summary of the mess of thoughts in my own head). Yes, I am not pushing the prépa because he has already been broken and rebuilt once transferring from English to French primary - it needs to be his choice if he wants to do it again!! But I have the same reservations about intégré, hence turning to look at the UK…Yes I had a quick look at Loughborough, it may well fit the bill. He has done a relevant internship but as you say would need to do more if he wants to stand out. Yes, he’s in première so I guess now is the right time to get prepping if he wants to do the ENAT and have more stuff to put on his personal statement. Up to him.

Very reassuring what you say about maths, thank you. It’s a private French school (sous contract) but I suspect they will have had the odd student go through UCAS before as we’re in a fairly international area, but yes will check. He has a C1 level Cambridge certificate in English taken through school but yes I guess we need to check with each Uni that that’s sufficient. Lots to think about!

No worries, happy to help.

Is he French as well? If so the Netherlands might be an option - Automotive Technology, taught in English at TU Eindhoven - excellent research university. Fees are much lower for EU nationals.

I saw this yesterday

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/apr/03/oxford-brookes-f1-formula-student-competition-fastest-race-car

Yes, he is French too so other EU unis are possible.

Before thinking about Netherlands or other EU countries.. consider whether he really wants to be in third country where he does not feel at home... yes the courses might be in English and Netherlands suits some people really well.. but others find it difficult to grapple with another new language, culture etc when everything else is also new.

We are also rather big on the Motorsport front. Not sure what’s designed and built in the Netherlands. Germany would be worth a look. Jobs with leading teams are not easy to get though. Everyone wants them.

Thanks ladies…yes I agree that adding a third country/culture would probably be too much. He will only be 17 when he starts. Maybe an interesting idea for a masters, but potentially too much before that (with the possible exception of Italy, for which he already has some linguistic/cultural background). And yes to having a plan B and plan C…he knows this…it’s a fine line between encouraging them to live their dreams and being realistic about future career possibilities!

I was wondering about the potential culture shock of the difference in the drinking cultures between France and the UK. If he has been accelerated in education in France, what about him doing Maths, FM and perhaps Physics a-levels on an intensive course in the UK for a year? I have no idea how feasible it is, but assuming there is a reasonable overlap (may not be - I have no idea), it would give him a year to get used to teen culture here.

I would say, based on what others have said he probably wouldn’t need that, because I would guess he only will need a stellar ESAT (which will need work outside school whenever he does it). But if resources allow, it might be a useful boost, particularly for the courses where the majority will have FM.

I was wondering about the potential culture shock of the difference in the drinking cultures between France and the UK

Over the years I have had several French students under my wing. One I know went on to work in F1. None have had any problems with the difference in drinking culture. Whatever that is.

Motorsports employers recruit good engineers. They don’t focus on motorsports degrees.

@Elbowpatch i was specifically thinking about the fact that the DS will be only 17. And having spent time studying in France at 18 and then more over the years, my experience is that there is a difference in the relationship to alcohol broadly speaking (and just observing this based now on the limited sample of my kids and my French friends’ kids). But my evidence for contemporary culture is a small pool, so may not be an issue.

Hello, OP -

I am a former STEM admissions tutor. I think you have great advice above, particularly from @MintoTime . A couple of thoughts:

C1 fluency is excellent; if the CCE isn’t accepted, this generally equates to an IELTS score in the region of 7.0-8.0, which is ample for academic study.

DS’ maths also sounds very strong. He is likely to be well prepared in practice for English universities. However the French maths curriculum is quite different to the English and IMO it isn’t likely to vibe well with the ESAT. I second the PP who suggest dedicated ESAT tuition if DS will be taking it.

I know next to nothing about career pathways in Automotive Engineering. I thought PP who raised the question of whether to specialise at the UG level, or go for an Engineering degree offering scope for more flexible employment followed by an MSc in AE, made an excellent point. I would pay a lot of attention to the Employability statistics in the league tables, which show graduate level employment by UG degree programme.

Where does DS see himself working? At what age? Might a 20 or 21 year old have a more difficult time gaining employment (which will never be proved)?

Also - and this is tricky because DS is clearly academically able - as an admissions tutor and a personal tutor I think @phyllidafosset ‘s suggestion that DS consider doing A levels, perhaps on a condensed timetable, has a lot of merit. I might see if he could place out of A level maths (and it useful to know if he cannot) and just do Further Maths and Physics.

This would acculturate him to British pedagogy and ways of living, and bring him up to drinking age, before beginning university.

My perspective on this is that I am in an excellent School, and my youngest personal tutees inevitably have some extra struggles. Most Engineering programmes in the UK will involve significant group work. Social confidence is very helpful.

Best wishes to DS

I was recently on a uni tour in the UK and one of the (older and v experienced) college tutors at a top ranking uni said that the main advice he would give every student - international or domestic - is to take a year out btw school and uni. That went double for those at the younger end of the spectrum. My own DS finished terminal last year and is a December baby so the youngest in his year: he’s started at uni here in France and DH and I are very much seeing it as a structured gap year, just to give him time to grow up a bit. He’s studying (a very undemanding course), learning to drive, got a girlfriend and still seeing a lot of old friends as well as making new ones. He’ll probably get a job as the uni holidays are long. So lots of useful experiences in a low pressure, low investment environment. He’s happy living at home as we treat him like a young adult, and it’s really normal here.

so not saying you should do this OP, just that it’s an option.

Btw every uni I visited emphasised that they really encourage the year abroad / paid year in industry option - so turning a 3 year degree into 4 but with greater employability at the end.

I agree with this.

However, universities are not keen to emphasise up front that students are responsible for finding their own industrial placements, and I know of no exceptions to this policy. Good students in Schools with good industrial links can generally do well; otherwise it can get problematic.

All Schools headline their top placements. It is a good idea to ask more detailed questions.

This is really interesting as my DS will be in a similar situation in a couple of years (although he is more interested in scientific research).

@chocolatebourbon how much work did the Cambridge certificate take? Our school offers lessons but I'm not sure about them.

The school also offers the American high school Dual Diploma so I'm wondering if that might be a good idea too/instead....