Yet another university pulling Modern Languages degrees

[tadjennyp]

Just seen on the news that Leicester is pulling its MFL degrees despite students having accepted offers. Are languages becoming the preserve of prestigious universities with very high tariffs? What hope do students in sixth forms in schools with low prior attainment have of going to university to study a language? I am feeling quite demoralised as an MFL teacher. What can we do to prevent the decline? And no, google translate does not do the same job as a person being able to converse with confidence.

DD's best friend on her course is saying she doesn't want to go on her compulsory year abroad.

I think DD is nervous about it but she says there is no point doing a language unless you go and live in the country for a while.

As others have said, it’s lack of demand. These are the problems of deciding university level provision on the basis of what 18 year olds want to study.

My niece has learnt Korean in her own time.

Shes visited South Korea twice and done a placement in South Korea.

They can’t afford to run them. All unis are having to streamline and focus on income- generating courses because they are drowning

While I think it's a shame that these courses are being scrapped, I think the overall quality of MFL degrees has declined in recent years. I studied a joint honours degree with a language at a very well-known UK university (it ranks in the top 5) and my experience was that the MFL teaching didn't really compare to my other subject's... the course wasn't as well organised, entry standards were lower, students on the course were less passionate and engaged much less with the reading etc., and it all felt so much less rigorous... I'm not sure I would encourage others to pursue a pure MFL degree.

University of Nottingham are pulling their MFL courses. DD did joint honours MFL and History and didn't receive a penny from their Turing allocation. Used all her savings to live during her YA. She would've been better off sticking with History, her part time job and holding onto her savings.

It’s a shame but not surprising, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. I did well at languages but was never confident to actually speak it, and people spoke too fast for me to understand them. So I always felt a bit embarrassed about my standard, despite getting top grades.
I only know people who succeeded at MFL when they already spoke the language growing up at home, so in a way it’s not exactly learning much for them either.
I love learning languages but never get anywhere to a standard where I could use it, and English is just everywhere wherever I travel. My DC find it hilarious that I spend ages on Duolingo just to say a couple of words on holiday before quickly reverting to English when we realise it’s just easier for everyone. As a result they, sadly, don’t see the point of learning another language, especially risking a degree on it.

One of the reasons I put ds up for a scholarship at an independent was because our state secondary school couldn't provide a french teacher until years 10 & 11.

They offered nothing in years 7, 8 & 9, which was daft given that ds had been taught some French in years 1-6 by the local state primary. It felt second rate and indifferent.

I think also that in an age when v many people travel and abroad isn‘t as mysterious studying MFL doesn‘t have that cachet. I had romantic dreams of the two countries whose languages I did at A level. Going to live/work elsewhere was something v few people did. I used my main language to get into my career but don‘t use it now. One friend who did work as a translator has now lost all her work to AI

Languages have been on the wane for a long time: closure of university MFL departments is the direction of travel. As others have said, the academic quality of MFL degrees has been problematic for a while.

Of course, there are plenty of bilingual/plurilingual people in the UK, including many with British nationality.

There are 98 students in DS's cohort studying his particular language. This is a uni 'suspending' mfl courses next year. To those saying studying a language is a waste of time and not worth the debt, do you say the same to students of English Lit, politics, history, film etc. There is so much more to a language degree than ordering a beer on holiday. The year abroad gave DS much more than fluency in his language and hopefully he can use some of that experience in his life.

A student on my DC's course (not MFL) is going to be an au pair in Paris next year after graduation. She will attend language classes during the day (this is a requirement of the au pair visa) and do wraparound care in English in a French family. All her rent and bills will be covered and she will get a small stipend and more if she does extra childcare at the weekend.

Do MFL undergraduate have to pay tuition fees for their year abroad?

They pay a reduced fee - think £1500 - to their home uni. Cost of getting visa and accommodation (had to pay for international guarantor for rent), health insurance (can't use travel insurance), getting to and from the country plus trips home when it's usually most expensive to travel really mounts up. And the Uni don't prioritise MFL students when it comes to allocating bloody Turing.

And you're surrounded by internationsl students speaking English, native students speaking English! It's no wonder MFL courses are closing.

Unless you are completely bi or trilingual there really is no pointing studying languages to degree level as you can't do anything with it.

Virtually everyone in Europe learns English as a second language and so many are completely bilingual that we just cannot compete.

I'm not sure I would encourage others to pursue a pure MFL degree either, but more because AI seems to be taking over much of the translation work.

If you end up in a career which involves building relationships and influencing people in non-English-speaking countries, such as international sales, news reporting, diplomacy or teaching, then an app is a poor substitute for being fluent in the local language and culture.

Maybe studying a language as part of a joint degree is the way to go? Or studying a degree in a professional subject and taking a separate language course?

But not enough multilingual people who will choose to teach in schools. And not enough to work for businesses who do a significant amount of trade overseas. I will keep flying the flags for languages and the soft skills you acquire by learning them and practising with other people.

It's not hard if languages is where your talents lie. I was a whiz at languages at school but didn't have a clue in Science or Math's. So for me, a degree in languages wasn't particularly difficult whereas I could never have done a Maths degree.

Yes, I do think a joint degree is the way to go, or adding a language as part of the course. Dd is doing French alongside her main degree and can add it to her degree certificate as she has done enough credits (Exeter). Ds wants to add Spanish to his main degree and has based his uni choices on where they have a languages for all option.
Some universities are even withdrawing that, which is daft as they could open that to the general public and earn money that way.

I've been a teacher of German and Spanish for 20 years, but I honestly think that, in the next few years MFL will be removed from the UK curriculum altogether. We already know that the odds are against us; impossibly high grade boundaries, subjective marking and of course the fact that AI is getting so much more commonplace. I work in a very highly rated grammar school but even here, German has been phased out and our A'level numbers are unsustainable. Very sad, but I'm resigned to it now and am just glad to be heading for retirement age.

i think both Brexit and the lack of interest in MFL is a sign that the UK has become inward-looking and insular.

it’s all very sad. I’m also an MFL grad and used to get a lot of very specialist translation work (although it was an extra string to my now rather than my main work). Google Translate put an end to that.

@AllJoyAndNoFunwhen my dd was touring universities 10 years ago, she was told if she wanted to go to Cambridge (for her it was about the institution as she’s a choral singer) the easiest course was a Anglo Saxon or Norse studies but linguistics was also low in applications

i think both Brexit and the lack of interest in MFL is a sign that the UK has become inward-looking and insular

Don't agree. And it certainly doesn't apply to the young people I know. We are fluent in an international language which facilitates communication wherever we go.

its a shame . My eldest is an mfl teacher in secondary school where it’s compulsory to do a language at gcse.
I understand some subjects are not as popular anymore but its is a shame.

Completely agree with all the above. I think the new MFL GCSE spec also doesn't help. It arguably does make the GCSE more accessible and increases the predictability of the exam, but the jump to A level is now a gulf. The A level is so literature-heavy and students need to really be all-rounders (able to write a coherent essay on literature/film, conduct academic research and discuss findings, read and summarise foreign language news, very competent at reading / listening/ complex translation).

I am an MFL teacher and don't know if I'd recommend the A level to a good number of my high-attaining students, most of whom aren't interested anyway because they all want to be doctors. When I taught A level, most of the tiny cohort were native speakers, and most of those again didn't have the ability to write a coherent and well-argued essay on the book/film.

My dd has just chosen her gcse options and has opted for 2 languages. She loves languages and they’re up there with her highest marks . She dislikes maths and sciences, though she’s quite good at them. ATM she’s hoping to do a law degree with Spanish and wants to study in Spain for a year. From the sounds of things that might not be an option if so many mfl courses are being scrapped.