Brutal grad jobs market

[anotherglass]

Hello, my DS 22 graduated last July with an BEng from a Russell Group uni. Since then he has applied for around 60-70 jobs with no success. The whole process of online assessment, video interview and then rejection / ghosting is starting to grind him down. It is even tough to secure a part-time job in our area - such as a coffee shop or retailer - as he is considered over qualified and a risk, due to the fact he is searching for a full-time role.
I am finding myself worrying more and more about his mental health and future.
He is already less enthusastic about applying for jobs.

Any suggestions on what to do from here? Is it worth considering a Masters to try and ride out the horrendous job market?

Thank you

Media studies has become a popular punching bag but it’s a bit harsh to call it a second rate degree. It’s a valid degree but there are far too many graduates in the subject for the actual number of jobs in the field.

As an earlier post highlighted, too many kids are being steered to A levels and degrees based on interest in the subject rather than thinking enough about employment prospects.

Apprenticeships are not some magic solution either. The best schemes are extremely competitive and there is a high dropout rate overall, something like 30-40% of apprentices fail to complete their apprenticeship.

I fear the jobs market for graduates and other young people has changed permanently and will take another five years to start to recover.

Either an apprenticeship or level 3 technical and vocational qualifications (BTecs and T levels) aimed towards the Government's well documented priority sectors shown below.

It’s hard market now. I hope he finds a job soon. A lot of engineering jobs will likely be replaced in the next decade or so with AI programmes, so likely one engineer needed to check/oversee the work of 10 peoples worth on a programme. God knows what it will be like in 15/20 years when mine will look for jobs. I won’t be too keen for them to go to university. Everyone seems to have a degree now.

No, engineers won't be "replaced by AI". They will use AI to do their jobs better.

The Government's AI impact report (Nov 2023) was widely mis-reported, and therefore is widely misunderstood by the general public.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/656856b8cc1ec500138eef49/Gov.UK_Impact_of_AI_on_UK_Jobs_and_Training.pdf

Apprenticeships are v v hard to come by at the moment. More competitive than Oxbridge. It's too expensive to employ young, untrained staff so even Saturday and casual jobs have disappeared. It's a mess.

Things are advancing every day. Engineers won’t be replaced but less will be needed.

Where is your evidence for that?
There's a bunker mentality forming, fuelled by ignorance ... the people who have jobs in the future are the ones who embrace AI and use it, not those that try to hide from it because they think it will replace them.

@strungling I don't want to derail the thread. It's not about being scared, I just think there will be less roles available to traditional graduates. Due to both the economy and technology changes. I do hope I'm wrong though. Universities and governments need to think about this which I doubt they will.

There is plenty of evidence that Universities and Governments are thinking about AI. They are developing pathways to equip people with the skills they need to navigate it.

Parents and teachers, especially careers teachers, have some responsibility to help the young people in their care to discover these pathways and recognise their value.

@Dangermouse999 I know apprenticeships have reduced but that’s partly taxation on jobs. What elite or even RG unis offer media studies? I suspect none. I’m not saying these degrees are worthless but they are a relatively easy route to university when dc are not studying academic subjects as we mostly understand them. It’s not French or maths is it?

A CV with no gaps is expected for school jobs and, presumably, other jobs with a strong safeguarding element. Gaps raise concerns about what a person is trying to hide.

What is the point of increased productivity? To give people more leisure time, or to enable increased production? Can the earth’s natural resources and climate sustain the latter? Have employers shown any signs of being happy to employ more people to do less work, or do they take advantage of improved efficiency and productivity by getting rid of more people? At least we have a birth rate crisis, so there will be fewer people around looking for work in the first place in the not so distant future. All we need now is to kill the surplus older population, and Bob’s your Uncle.

Jobs are being outsourced all the time, to poorer countries such as India. Now AI is in the mix this is even better for cost cutting employers

Which bit do you think is wrong @strungling - that engineers won't be replaced or that less are needed?

It's entirely obvious that less people will be needed in a huge variety of roles. AI is already being fully embraced by my work...it's summarisimg complex documents, writing formal letters to clients, creating plans for the most efficient way to complete x project, analysing the data from several spreadsheets and spitting out the report.

Checking the accuracy of these tasks takes me ten minutes each vs over an hour to do the actual work myself.

Of course SOME staff will be retained. But not all.

I am entirely certain that we'll be facing hefty redundancies within two years. You simply do not need anywhere near as many of me and plenty of other similar roles any more.

I haven’t read the whole thread…what type of Engineering degree does your DS have OP?
DS2 is currently in his first year of a Civil Engineering degree.

Oh my goodness. I hope you're not speaking in this way to the young people in your life.

A better way to think of it is as another revolution that people will adapt to. In the past, jobs were replaced my machinery, then by mass production, then by computers, and now by generative AI. Some jobs will be replaced, others will be created.

Young people need our encouragement to ride the wave, not to be pulled under and drowned by it.

You haven’t answered the questions. Ignoring them is what has got us into this mess. Confronting the issues might create a brighter future. Pretending we can carry on behaving as we are is idiocy. We need a more coherent idea of where we are headed and why.

@DotNTimmy "Which bit do you think is wrong ... that engineers won't be replaced or that less are needed?"

It is the sweeping generality of both statements that is wrong, as well as the underlying negativity. Some jobs will change, some will be replaced, others will be created.

Engineers are no more or less likely to be affected, for good or for bad, than many other professions. There are obviously many types of engineer, but the thing they tend to have in common is intelligence and practicality, so there is no reason why individuals can't adapt.

DCs are less likely to develop the skills they need for the workplace if they have parents who forecast doom and gloom.

The media likes to forecast doom and gloom for clicks, and its clearly having a negative impact on people.

@OP The aeronautical engineering job market has always been prone to fluctuations - I've got friends who've been made redundant many times, had to commute long distances etc. Many of the jobs now seem to be in the satellite industry.

Is the lack of a masters likely to be a factor? It would be for Civil Engineering as it takes a lot longer to get chartered without one.

The jobs market is terrible, so many of daughters cohort are jobless, students with masters having to accept jobs they could of done without going to university.
Having Masters will NOT guarantee a job.

You must be new to AI.

If you believe that it won't replace jobs - or that the number of jobs it creates will equal those lost - then you clearly have no idea what it's capable of.

AI has developed so far that the latest versions of it have been partly...sometimes mostly...built by itself. Because its abilities have now surpassed the skills of the most skilled humans that contributed to the earlier versions. This is what AI can do in 2026. In 2022, if you asked most models to do 7 x 7, they would have got it wrong. That's how fast it's come on. The Government 2023 report you mentioned is so wildly outdated that it's findings are now irrelevent. In 2023, most 'experts' still significantly underestimated the abilities of AI, or the speed of development possible when it started building itself. It's equally exciting and frightening imo.

I'm not sure about engineers specifically...but generally, we're going to face a recruitment crisis like never before in the next ten years.

Coders, analysts, writers, therapists, customer service staff, bookkeepers, PA's, translators, lots of solicitors and accountants, bankers, researchers, so many I can't even think of...it's coming for nigh on all the jobs.

If your main tools in doing your job are the knowledge in your head, learned and innate mental skills and abilities, a computer and the internet or books...your job either won't exist in ten years or the number of you required will be a fraction of what's needed now.

Jobs will change, there's no doubt about that.

What I said is that young people need to be ready to adapt to the change, and not be frightened of it. Negativity will hold them back.

@DotNTimmy You clearly know nothing about engineering! Letters and documents? Not remotely engineering!

@RipplePlease It was a BEng in aeronautical I seem to recall . Make sure DS does MEng and gets some work experience. Even if it’s not paid! Look around locally in the holidays and be proactive. Civil engineering jobs are very dependent on a bouyant economy to fund big projects. Jobs can be cyclical, but he should always look at consultants and smaller employers who are registered to train him for CEng qualification.

You clearly know nothing about engineering! Letters and documents? Not remotely engineering!

Clearly reading comprehension is not your strong suit @OhDear111 . I said nothing about engineering being to do with letters and documents. Conversations expand and shift.

@DotNTimmy Listing what AI can do and you also said “ which bit do you think is wrong - that engineers won’t be replaced or that less are needed”. You don’t know what all branches of engineering are? You then rowed back and said you didn’t really know about engineering. You just decided you would lump it into everything else.