Brutal grad jobs market

[anotherglass]

Hello, my DS 22 graduated last July with an BEng from a Russell Group uni. Since then he has applied for around 60-70 jobs with no success. The whole process of online assessment, video interview and then rejection / ghosting is starting to grind him down. It is even tough to secure a part-time job in our area - such as a coffee shop or retailer - as he is considered over qualified and a risk, due to the fact he is searching for a full-time role.
I am finding myself worrying more and more about his mental health and future.
He is already less enthusastic about applying for jobs.

Any suggestions on what to do from here? Is it worth considering a Masters to try and ride out the horrendous job market?

Thank you

Job market is so bad for young people, my dd graduated last july, is now applying for anything office based in london, she just wants to go to work, 2.1 degree, worked all through it in mcdonalds, so not lazy, must have applied for over 200 jobs now, so sad

What was her degree, and what was her hoped-for career path when she chose it?

The job market is difficult, but if she's applied for that many jobs without success then its possible she may be missing a few things that can help her, such as:

• Get someone (you?) to review her CV and applications for spelling, grammar, tone. Even after graduation, some uni Careers departments will do CV reviews and they'll certainly have online resources for graduates.
• Optimise her CV & applications for AI e.g. by making sure they reference the essential criteria in the job spec. AI will also screen for spelling & grammar.
• Don't just use big job boards like LinkedIn and Indeed. Also go to the websites of target employers and register for direct job alerts. Many employers don't have the budget to pay for widespread advertising, so they just put the adverts on their own websites and rely on "web scrapers" to pick them up and advertise them for free.
• If you live near a university then they are very good for admin jobs that start at a low level but, for those with the right skills, can lead to long term careers in HE professional services.
• Schools are frequently looking for support staff, including for casual roles like exam invigilation. They are often advertised via eTeach or sometimes just on the school website. They can be a foot in the door for office work.

For any DCs a few years behind yours I'd say working in McDonalds or other hospitality roles throughout uni might help pay the bills and demonstrate ability to hold down a job, but it's not necessarily going to stand out on a CV when aiming for an office job in a competitive market.

Completely disagree with working in McDs not being a good idea to subsidise uni costs. McDs has excellent training for their employees. Retail and hospitality are tough jobs and teach valuable skills to young people at the beginning of their careers. Better to work than to completely rely on your parents subsidising you throughout Uni - now that is more of a red flag!

You misinterpreted me. It's fine to work in McDonalds. It's a disadvantage to only work in McDonalds and not try to get some work experience that's more relevant to what they want to do in future. They'll be competing with others who have had relevant internships or temporary admin work in their summer holidays, or who have helped to run clubs at uni. They need some thing(s) to help them stand out from the crowd.

My son graduated with a First in Maths from a RG Uni but after a couple of years of unfulfilling employment he returned to study MSc Financial Mathematics. It was expensive & very hard work but he passed with flying colours & was immediately offered a fantastic job by an employer who’d seen his details on LinkedIn.
Good luck to your son!

All recruiters differ but I don't think temp admin work or working in a school would put you to the top of the list - it wouldn't for us - we're looking for evidence of interpersonal skills gained, a good attitude, calm under pressure, open minded, creative problem solving, comfortable in dealing with the unknown etc, you can demonstrate these though a range of experiences it doesn't have to be an office.

Internships on a CV leave us questioning - did they not offer you a permanent job (the main function of internships from a company perspective is recruitment) - if not why not? Multiple internships - do you really not have a clue what you want to do (and if we were recruiting for internships would have me worried). One of the senior team used to be concerned about how they got the internship - was it nepotism? Staying in the same job shows that you were a good worker and they wanted you back - you had staying power - or does it suggest you were lazy in your search for something more challenging? Going from job to job each summer - could suggest you weren't invited back for a good reason. And running a club at Uni - you have to know of the club to be impressed with that one - some are just CV fillers - you'd do well not to take them as impressive. I interviewed a Cambridge grad who was president of a club - only something did not seem right, out of curiosity I called Cambridge Uni to ask who was the president of the club in the year stated on the grad's cv - they told me that the club had been disbanded 10 years ago.

My advice is have a convincing story - make it look like the job you are going for has, always been you plan - you are destined to be together - it's a relationship so don't forget to bring the human to the table (often seen stem subjects) ie don't over focus on technical skills, at the expense of the soft skills on your cv, on your covering letter and in your interviews - with aptitude, technical skills can be taught - attitude and people skills are a day one requirement - you'll hone your people skills over time if you value them - we wanted to see that you did.

Internships don’t all lead to jobs. Some will get jobs from them but not all. It’s unfair to say they are not good enough because an employer has the rejected them on their criteria. They might not be your criteria.

A very high percentage do get converted to a permanent job and when they don't you have to ask why not? Fair or not, it is what it is.

Definitely worth asking for recent stats on internship to job conversion. One of mine did a summer internship where they were very honest that it wouldn’t lead to a job and another placement where conversion to job was 4% (if she’d known she’d probably have gone elsewhere). One of mine did no internships but worked continuously in student jobs from school and thru uni (term time and holidays). I think he just emphasised that he hadn’t done internships as he couldn’t get the time off but he’d investigated job field in other ways. Worked for him as their recruitment algorithm weighted quantity of other activities alongside uni rather than relevance.

I'm just saying that an internship isn't necessarily a positive over a McDonalds job - but recruiters are people and they have different views of things like this. One of my friends ds worked as a cleaner in a meat processing plant - a horrible job that he did so well - he got invited back and promoted - she was horrified -thought no one would employ him and he'd have to hide it from his CV - I just thought that boy will go far! I'd have been impressed - I expect someone who could cheerfully do a job like that could cope with anything thrown at him - it certainly would not stop me wanting to have a chat with him. Anyway he had no problem getting a grad role - just I expected! Sleeves up and get on with it - it's great attitude.

So interesting to read this thread.... Really good luck to everyone out there looking for jobs and work experience.

Not wishing to derail, but would love to tap into your experience. My DS is in y12 and keen to apply for a degree apprenticeship next year in real estate. He has been trying to get a Saturday job with view to working over the summer - but no luck at all despite loads of applications and cv hand-ins. He's also applying for work experience and has had mixed success: one 3 day stint in commercial property and two banking hybrid weeks. I am confident that he will get a couple more weeks work experience over the summer. Some things we've been talking about and would love some advice on:

• given how difficult it is to get paid work, we've been talking about whether he should plan his summer around unpaid work experience in the property sector - commercial real estate offices, surveyor, planning advisor, serviced office provider? Does that look flakey or committed?
• we've recently met a v impressive young man who has started a commercial cleaning company - would that be good work experience? I think it would be great - along the lines that @NextLevel2 mentioned above, by DS and DH are horrified and think it positions him as a cleaner.
• he volunteers as part of Gold Duke of Edinburgh (he also did Silver) and wondered if volunteering in a charity over the summer was a better option?

Any thoughts appreciated.

What about a job on a construction site as a labourer? Unpaid work is generally illegal, under some circumstances for eg part of a uni course. He could shadow but he would not be allowed to work.

I interviewed a young man who ran a business whilst a Uni - I think he sold trainers, that did not pigeon hole him at all, he impressed me, we had an interesting chat - the challenges of running your own business - painful lessons learned, the biggest challenges, how you solved problems etc it beats listening to the same stories over and over again but you have to be able to speak confidently about your failures and your weaknesses (as well as your successes) - we love that shit - because someone who can't admit a weakness or a mistake - is a big business risk, it's a big personality flaw, if you have it, don't let it show at interview.

I'll probably get slated for this but I feel a bit uncomfortable about the charity thing - internally I'd be asking did you do it for your cv or because you believed in the charity - feels a bit virtue signalling, white saviour stuff, do your volunteer things but downplay the charity bit - unless you are going into a sector that likes that kind of thing.

@GrumpyMuleFan My DD volunteered a lot. It really is not virtue signalling. She gave them her time and in return she learnt a lot from them. This was the Natuonal Trust. She learnt timekeeping, room talks, meet and greet, answering guest questions, flexibility, etc. She also joined staff on special projects such as reorganising the children’s area and updating the inventory. It was a great experience for her and she was asked about it at work interviews. She said people were interested in it. She also volunteered for the CAB and a women’s refuge charity. She is now a barrister. Don’t be put off volunteering. It’s mutually supportive and can really say something about you. Plus getting paid work can be a challenge right now unless you know someone.

@GrumpyMuleFan the estate agents near me hire saturday staff to help with viewings, though I suppose they probably hire people with a bit more life experience if they have multiple applicants to choose from.

Some DCs I know have casual jobs as lifeguards. You pay c£300 upfront for a 5 day NPLQ course, then they will be qualified to apply. The need for the certificate cuts down the pool of applicants and there seems to be no shortage of casual shifts. Local Authority pools pay best.

My DS did a couple of online health&safety courses to qualify for a CSCS Labourer Green Card. He was then able to get some temporary building site work during the summer holidays. This was later cited as "impressive" in his feedback for Civil Engineering internship applications. If your son is interested in the Surveying aspect of Real Estate then it might be useful experience for him too.

As others have said - military careers could be a good bet. You can do much worse than ending up in the RAF!

But that cleaner job is different enough to be interesting. Working at McDonalds is less likely to stand out, not least because its a job everyone thinks they know inside out.

Either way, it is the range of experience that is important - 2 or 3 shorter experiences that showcase different skills is likely to be better than 1 long term experience.

I've never seen a CV with McD's on it - so it would have been a novelty.

My friend from school worked in McD's whilst at Uni serving Big Macs and stayed - worked her way up to being a location scout (don't know what her official title is) but she has had a very successful career and is very well paid. McD's have a recruit from within culture and she is one of their success stories - she loves working for them!

It's just much more common these days for undergraduates to have part time jobs, so having one doesn't necessarily make you any different to your competitors.

If dc can get an internship, take it. Most are now paid and the employer will be looking at you. Impress, and there’s a higher chance of employment. This is quite usual in London companies paying well. But of course they are very very competitive.

I agree. They are now a fundamental part of the recruitment process. Big companies (and some small ones) are not doing them to provide work experience out of the goodness of their hearts, they're using them as a several week long talent vetting process, usually in the summer between the penultimate year and final year of a degree, and will often offer a job at the end. They
therefore have fewer jobs to offer to graduates who didn't do their internship.

In some sectors internships are available for first and second year students too, and companies will sometimes pay a bursary to retain them for subsequent years.

No but not having one makes you stand out for all the wrong reasons.
I am a big fan of teens working in retail and hospitality - I've seen the positive change that it delivers in terms of confidence and maturity levels. Anyway - we all have our views on these things - I'm just sharing my views after quite a few years of recruiting for professional roles attracting salaries from £39k (for grads) - £140k plus bonuses.
All companies value slightly different attributes, roles require different skills and experience and recruiters all have their personal preferences and bugbears. It's a match making process - you need to find the right person for the job and the candidate needs to feels the match is right too. Both my kids got grad jobs this year - they clicked with the person recruiting them - they made a personal connection - they knew how important that was and they knew when it felt right.

My profession (law) has paid vacation schemes (1 or 2 weeks in university holidays) which are very competitive to get a place on but definitely worth applying to as they let you see how a City or other law firm works and plenty recruit their future trainee solicitors from those who have done vacation schemes at the firm when at unviersity (or after).

@NextLevel2 There is a vast amount of anecdotal evidence that dc are struggling to get jobs whilst at university. Is it truly fair to hold that against them? Will it mean that dc who stat local for uni and keep part time jobs are more favoured? Or what about dc who don’t actually need to apply for holiday jobs as they work in a relative’s business as a shoe in? They often don’t need to make much effort at all - would you favour them? What about balancing that with volunteering and leadership roles? Are they worthless?

Its extremely difficult now for many uni students to get work and sometimes the odd day, at, say, a racecourse, is all that’s available. In many cities, students compete with school dc and people wanting 16 hours. It’s often the adult who gets the work as they often come with experience.

I’ve no idea how school age dc find jobs on a Saturday here. Cafes are family run and restaurants are not recruiting teens. Retail has cut back with self serve. Then there’s travel issues to and from other towns. It’s very hard and then no one wants to employ them after they graduate!

Sorry to derail but I wonder what opinions are that parental fiancee and connections are becoming even more relevant to the success of children?

It seems to me that in this highly competitive environment having parents who can pay for such things such as M.Sc. s, expenses during work experience/internships, accommodation in the right area etc. is going to be important.

Also having a parent who works in a desired profession is a great benefit in getting a foot in the door.

Is this highly competitive environment a knockback for meritocracy.

Meritocracy is a myth.