Medicine or finance !

[Anna2111]

Hoping for some advice- mydd 16 is trying to choose between medicine and finance careers. Good GCSEs 9 9’s, 1 ‘8’ and a levels predicted 3 a stars - very good at maths. Thinking of adding FM if doing finance/ economics.

Finance seems better pay initially but university selection matters more( lse tc hard to get in ) - but long term do you still need to work crazy hours when you are 40?
she is interested in global markets not trading.
but not sure about people in finance is it really cutthroat ? Is there job security ? Is it rewarding ?

medicine - rewarding but long hours. But hours reduce if get to be consultant but given job crisis not sure if everyone will be to consultant.

any advice would be appreciated! Maybe anyone with kids who are Resident docs or economics graduates.

thank you !

Wow that is a diverse choice! I’m not going to be of much help - but I would say that medicine is a vocation. It’s a bloody slog and you really need to have a genuine desire to help people and be a doctor. It’s not one to pick just because you want a ‘good’ career, yes once you are consultant level it’s good pay etc but getting there is insanely hard!
I know nothing about finance tbh. Apart from the high amount of burn out and the fact that where there seems to be a fuck ton of money there also tends to be a excess of horrible people 😂

I also have limited experience @Anna2111 but some thoughts:

• Is your DD in year 12? I assume so as you speak of actual GCSE results – if so, what A levels does she do? Adding FM at this stage would be a challenge. If she is in year 11 and you mean GCSE PGs (fair enough) then I would advise FM A level for sure if thinking of econ at LSE or anywhere similar.
• There are plenty of medicine threads on MN so have a look.
• If planning med, I would advise chem and biology A levels (I am assuming she is in year 11 tbh) as that will open more med schools. If she is already taking A levels and doesn’t do both of those, a place at med school is harder but not necessarily impossible.
• Med at uni is very hard to get into and then very hard when you are there. I would only advise it if it were a real passion. Doesn’t sound as tho it is with your DD tbh (apols if I am misreading).
• Wrt being a consultant – yes of course not every medic will become one. A very small percentage in fact. That’s not to say you cannot be a successful doctor without being a consultant. But look carefully at recent news stories and get her to consider whether it is something she really wants.

She shouldn't pursue a career in medicine unless that's the only thing that she realistically wants to do. It definitely isn't a career for the faint hearted, and if money is her main motivator - which the interest in finance careers suggests it probably is - then there are much easier ways of earning a decent living.

That said, there will be trade-offs in most careers. High earners in any field will typically need to work long hours.

What is she actually interested in?

If she does straight maths she can keep her doors open for lots of things. Finance, data science, AI, IT, meteorology, insurance. I know maths grads who do all sorts!

Medicine is a hard slog and I think your heart really has to be set on it.

If she does A level Maths Chem Biology and FM she can do either since you don’t need Economics for uni.

Thank you so much everyone!
She is in year 12 and it would be hard to start FM now. But she learnt 5 modules FM over the weekend ( they’ve done 9 total in FM) so she thinks she could catch up. But would need to drop her EPQ ( medical related ).School have enrolled her in the free TMua maths course. But she did a ucat ( medical entrance ) practice today - results 95th centile.

She did sit in with a finance person who was great watched him deal with global markets etc and found it really interesting. But in general the type of people probably will be different to medicine !

She loves the idea of helping people and being a surgeon but the thought of spending 15 years training and all the stories about junior drs being overworked / underpaid/ lack jobs is putting her off.
She has work experience in half term in hospital hopefully that will help .
Its hard to get more work experience in finance until summer which quite late to decide .

Decision paralysis is stressing her out ! She always wanted to be a dr but then realised that maths is really easy for her- now she can’t decide if she wants to make a career out of it or stick with her original desire for medicine !

My DP did chemical engineering (A levels of, I think, Maths, FM, Chem and Physics) then went into investment banking on a graduate scheme. Hated it & left after 3 years, did graduate medicine & is now a doctor. So she could always try both!

My advice would be Tod is what you enjoy, rather than what you’ve been conditioned to believe is a worthy career. It’s a long time to be miserable in a job role you felt pushed in to.

My dd is doing medicine. Honestly, I worry about her and I wish that she had chosen something else. There are so many horror stories about resident doctors and their poor mental health etc.

She absolutely loves it, though, and there is literally nothing else that she would rather do instead, so I respect her choice while continuing to worry about it quietly. It's pretty brutal and not all of the people who started alongside her have managed to stay the course.

It's an incredible career in many ways, but I do think you have to really want to do it in order to make it worthwhile, so if the thought of the hard graft is making her doubt whether or not she really wants it, then I don't think she should dismiss those concerns lightly.

One of DD's friends did Medicine, went into something (no idea what) 'in finance' as soon as they graduated a couple of years ago.

And then started their FY1 year just 12 months behind their original cohort.

She did think that too- Bsc 3 years, Graduate med 4 years so only 2 years more in total than if she did medicine in the first place !

I agree - she just is confused about what she would enjoy more !

Yes that does worry me - the hard graft lasts for around 15 years and then only gets easier if you become a consultant which is not guaranteed.

That’s interesting to know !

Has she looked at actuarial as a career? Not as well paid as some finance careers but also not the same level of crazy hours. A maths degree is a common way in.

It's worth noting that graduate medicine is supposed to be incredibly competitive to get onto. I don't have personal experience but dd knows quite a lot of graduates who have just started again on a normal undergraduate medicine degree - some of them may have chosen that route, I suppose, but I'm guessing that some of them probably didn't make the cut for the graduate programme.

Yes I suggested that - she said it might be a bit boring and mainly wfh and on a computer with no connection with anyone - it that true ? She is quite sociable and likes interacting with people .

Thank you I didn’t know that it was so hard to join that.

It is also worth being aware of student finance rules if she decides to consider the first degree/graduate medicine route.

The funding is bad enough even for med students on their first degree. Most of those doing it as a second degree seem to be self funding through the bank of mum and dad, so that would exclude quite a lot of people from even considering this option.

Go with what appeals most now.
She can always change direction in her 30s
See how hospital work experience goes

Is she motivated to help people maybe she stays a mid earning resident doctor forever no issue with that...

Or a shitload of money and the high life ...she should watch Industry ...then Casualty....

Just want to say that if it’s surgery she’s interested in as a career in medicine then it certainly does not get ‘easier’ as a consultant in several branches of surgery, other than having job security. Lots of Jnr Drs think it does, and historically that was the case. But nowadays they are quite wrong to think that!

Don’t choose medicine unless you enjoy anatomy, physiology and basic science, and genuinely want to help people. If she does then it’s still a good career. Sounds like she needs to push for work exp in both fields.

Actuaries are consistently amongst the very most satisfied of professionals, worldwide, often snagging the top spot. So I rather think there is more to it than this.

Having said that, you don’t need to do an Actuarial Sciences degree programme to become an actuary. Lots of UG mathematicians, statisticians, economists, physicists, computer scientists and engineers go into the profession.

It’s looks like the perfect job to me , well paid, 9-5, can work part time. Are you an actuary ? Is it lots of spreadsheets ? Do you interact with people much ?

I am afraid it is a myth that it gets easier when you are a Consultant. Obviously it depends to a degree on your specialty and where you work, but the last on call I did before I retired I was in the hospital providing hands on clinical care for 20 out of the 24 hours and that was not unusual. And the additional responsibility is huge. The pressure of being head of department nearly tipped me over the edge and I have seen massive amounts of burn out in consultant colleagues in many specialties. The last 5 years of my career were without doubt the worse and for the first time in my working life I actually didn't want to go to work any more. Back when I was a junior we worked far longer hours than they do now but even in the days when a working a weekend meant starting at 8am on Friday and leaving at whatever time your routine work finished on Monday evening, I enjoyed that far more than being a senior consultant.
There are lots of good things about a career in medicine of course and I do feel privileged to have had the opportunity but I would not recommend it to anyone who doesn't really want it and who doesn't have a thorough understanding of what is involved.
I'd struggle to find any of my friends and former colleagues who'd agree that "the hard graft lasts for around 15 years and then it gets easier" I'm afraid. More or less everyone I know who is around my age is desperate to get out if they haven't been able to already.
Unfortunately it is very difficult to get work experience these days as most Trusts no longer allow it, and you can only get a very sanitised view anyway. But I would advise your DD to try to get some experience in some kind of care environment and if possible, talk to doctors at different stages of their careers in different specialties to try to get as much insight into the life as she can.

Finance seems better pay initially but university selection matters more( lse tc hard to get in ) - but long term do you still need to work crazy hours when you are 40? she is interested in global markets not trading. but not sure about people in finance is it really cutthroat ? Is there job security ? Is it rewarding ?

Global markets is indeed cutthroat with little to no job security. And yes, you generally work crazy hours regardless of age/seniority. The pressure is insane and it all happens at the speed of light with the additional pressure of constant change/innovation and brutal politics. It’s very much a sink or swim environment. And just because you swam today, it doesn’t mean you won’t sink tomorrow.

On the positive side, get it wrong in Global markets and you won’t actually kill anyone. So there’s that!

It sounds like her heart has been in medicine until now but Global markets has turned her head a little? It really depends what she wants and what she is most passionate about. Global markets most definitely isn’t an easy option. And that better pay comes at a significant cost. It is as far from a caring profession as you can get. It changes people. You have to change to survive. And it can be very hard to change back or remember who you used to be and what really matters (which isn’t money!)

I work at a university and the head of our medical school always says don’t go into medicine unless you can’t imagine doing anything else. That’s always stuck with me.

Graduate entry is wildly competitive and very hard financially so you’d need to go into it with eyes wide open and confident you could financially support her.