Is Trinity Hall Cambridge right about elite schools?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jan/07/cambridge-college-elite-private-schools-student-recruitment

Interesting position but maybe there are those at Cambridge that think encouraging students from the state sector has gone too far? Wonder if other colleges will follow suit.

@Scotiasdarling - firstly, if there was a state vs independent quota at Cambrige, then all that means is that the independent school kids are competing against each other within their own quota bracket.

Secondly, it is tradition amongst some of the richer public schools to donate to your school either when still living or once dead. The tradition remains and those funds are separately raised. Nothing to do with the payments made by current parents. Also it all attracts gift aid so is tax efficient.
It is not just independent schools with endowment funds trying to do this. Several of eg the London livery companies are also doing their bit (just one example). This is NOT the cash of the nouveau riche private school entitled parent.

I don't think quota systems promote excellence, as Cambridge are finding out..

And don't you think that name calling (nouveau riche private school entitled parent) is awfully like the 'rich thickos' name calling earlier in this thread.

You can quibble about scholarships, but anyone paying 40% tax and then perhaps £50000 per year for their child's education is already contributing quite enough towards educating other people's children.

I don't think there is state vs indy quota at Oxbridge. As multiple pps said on this thread and other, these unis prioritise state candidates but then fill delta with private ones. They want PS kids to be substantially stronger than state to offer.

Re major donations to PS - it used to be a tradition, not so much anymore. Especially given very international cohort these days and also how many kids chose to live UK and go to international unis, with the issue discussed on this thread being a significant contributor to this exodus. So it makes all sense for these schools to use their funds to support bursaries for own students.
I can categorically say that the appetite for charity towards state schools amongst PS parents has almost disappeared.

I think the US uni fashion may be temporarily out of fashion, don’t you think?!

I personally know plenty of old English families donating happily to all their usual charities and old school and will also be donating to eg Oxford or Cambridge or St Andrew’s etc.
The charitable giving is a real part of British culture, has been for a very long time.

It is not just independent schools with endowment funds trying to do this. Several of eg the London livery companies are also doing their bit (just one example.
Eton are setting up partnerships with state schools. This is from google:

plans for selective, state-funded sixth-form colleges (Eton Star Schools) in disadvantaged areas like Dudley, Oldham, and previously Middlesbrough, to boost access to top universities for bright, underprivileged students, though the Middlesbrough project was recently scrapped by the Labour government amidst a review of free schools, while Dudley and Oldham plans continue. These "free sixth forms" focus on high-quality academics, university prep, and support for students from disadvantaged backgrounds, aiming to improve progression to Oxbridge and Russell Group universities.

Judging from uncomplimentary comments on mn, there will be some parents who wouldn’t touch with a barge pole any school being helped by Eton, but hopefully these schools will help disadvantaged kids.

Not exactly. Some are put off, but a lot of DC's friends at Westminster and SPS are still very actively pursuing US and EU options. They know how much UK top unis "love" them, so aren't willing to bother. Which is a great shame

@Araminta1003 anyone paying school fees is more likely nouveaux pauvre than nouveaux riche these days, but I'm happy for you knowing old English families. Do they know you like name calling strangers on the internet? It's not really comme il faut.

In fact, the rates are very similar for the top few schools - though the grammar with the highest success rate here is obviously doing quite a lot of preselection with only 36 applicants.

https://www.uniadmissions.co.uk/application-guides/most-successful-schools-for-oxbridge/

Also, lots of the well-known schools already do quite a lot of outreach and support.

This is one such initiative: https://www.westlondonpartnership.org/

Reminder https://thetab.com/2025/10/24/revealed-the-30-private-and-state-schools-managing-to-get-the-most-students-into-oxbridge

Westminster School sits right at the top with 81 students! St Paul’s also on the list. And Harris Westminster right in there (supported by Westminster in some subjects).

So the kids are put off Oxbridge having the highest entry figures in the country? Highly unlikely.

The only thing I can see at a very first glance is superselective state skews more Cambridge, independent skews more Oxford. Apart from Hills Road, but obviously they may simply want to get out of their own home town!

It is better to own your privilege.

Just spilled my coffee! the author of this article could make a great comedian:

The University of Oxford and the University of Cambridge are two of the most competitive universities in the UK, but do any students have an inherent advantage? Neither university holds any biases during the admissions process, as the only things they consider are the student’s ability, motivation and attitude towards learning, all based on what has been provided in their application.
However, while the right traits for Oxbridge students can be found in anyone,

Yeah, certainly no biases and absolutely everyone has right traits for Oxbridge.

@MonGrainDeSel thank you for sharing, you made my day

Well @Scotiasdarling - you did start with the “you sweet old fashioned thing!”

And what exactly is wrong with calling the new international elite nouveau riche. A lot of them simply are. And won’t have the charitable hundred year plus ties to Britain. It is a fact. However, plenty of the really rich there are actually making plenty of donations. Hence the X wing here and there in various independent schools. Just perhaps not the professional internationals in London.

I don't think public schools opening selective sixth forms is what's needed. Greater Manchester non selective 6th form colleges have plenty of people getting great A Level results. My DC's college had 31 Oxbridge offers with 29 students taking up places. Another college two miles across town had 23 offers. And that's just two colleges.

It would be easy enough for the Eton-linked sixth form proposed in Oldham to cherry pick a bunch of higher achievers that would ordinarily have gone to these colleges, and then claim those pupils' successes for itself, when those pupils would have done just as well elsewhere.

@nearlylovemyusername The article is obviously nonsense. The success rates of applicants versus acceptances is what is interesting. You can't just go on raw numbers since some of the schools have much smaller cohorts than others and other schools obviously only have a small proportion of students applying.

@Araminta1003 so are you going to try to pretend that 'entitled' isn't rude now? Own your offensiveness.

@Araminta1003
So the kids are put off Oxbridge having the highest entry figures in the country? Highly unlikely.

How many parents friends do you have at these schools? have you attended any parents events there?

Most of both of my DC's mates are at SPS and Westminster, been friends since reception so meet on a regular basis. They are kids with average GCSEs grades 8.8-8.9 (usually ten or eleven subjects taken, many have all 9s, 8 is considered to be a failure) and four or more As at A-level plus EPQs. All on the top of significant sports, arts, volunteering activities. They are truly exceptionally bright kids. They all know that for a number of years kids before them with equal grades were rejected by Oxbridge, especially for oversubscribed courses. Nearly all of them would want to apply, but they don't.

Google SPS Leavers Destinations 2025 - only 20% went to Oxbridge, 22% went abroad.

@nearlylovemyusername - same grade profile and extracurricular activities at the London superselective grammar schools, with similar rates of Oxbridge qualifiers.

Why programme a kid to a) think an “8” is a failure and b) leave the country if you get into LSE/Imperial but not Oxford.
Getting in has been down to competition in your college on the day for many many years. Telling kids you are a genie and a victim when they are uber privileged won’t do them any favours in the work place.

I suspect that at least part of the issue is the interview admissions system is likely to favour boys - they are more likely as a gender group to speak up and hold their own. Girls as a group are more compliant and less likely to argue back.

One issue that might also have been overlooked is that girls from certain cultural backgrounds may be under significant familial pressure to not go away to uni - the NCLS destinations indicates a very high number going on to London unis and whilst that is an indication of their academic achievement - how many schools get 10 into Imperial and 15 in to UCL - it may also indicate that there is a tranche of students that would not be looking at Oxbridge in the first place.

Coming back to the early debate on the socio economic and ethnic identities of those participating in the arts, I think that this is not necessarily the case. It may be the case for traditional European cultural events but there is a much wider grassroots participation in eg Gospel choirs, street dance, graphic art etc that flies under the DCMS radar and also adds to the revenue take for GB plc from the arts sector.

@Araminta1003
Understanding of success or failure depends on environment - if most of the grades you see around you are 9, then 8 is seen as a failure, nothing to do with programming.
They don't leave the country if they don't get to Oxbridge - they don't bother applying, they move abroad instead. If you look at stats linked a few posts above, Oxbridge applications are reducing at most indys.
Telling them "know you privilege and your place" really doesn't help, esp in context of George Abaraone

Do you really think that? Funny.

@nearlylovemyusername - London is a very international place and so are the kids at the schools you mention. Many have at least one foreign passport and naturally will take an interest in their original heritage. Some are from Asian countries like India, Singapore etc etc where US unis have traditionally been prestigious.
If someone wants to extend their DC further by having the elite US uni experience and they have the wallet to stomach an additional USD80k per year, then good for them.
But if these uber privileged kids are telling themselves they are not privileged or not wanted in the UK, then I think that is misinformation that has been allowed to spread amongst them and their parents possibly, and should be rectified.
If the schools are telling them in Sixth Form to decide between Oxbridge applications and US uni applications (with all the extra work that entails for both), on top of 4 or 5 A levels, then I believe that to be sound advice and in their best interests.

If my DC applied to Oxbridge and did not get in, I would never let them think it is because Oxbridge is now anti state selective. I would tell them another kid did slightly better on the day or the professors thought they would get even more out of the experience. I actually do have one DC who went abroad and had to do a C1 certificate in the language and so all efforts were placed there and on their course and they were ultimately successful. This is something they really wanted and we have some family ties and I was happy to support. Would have been equally happy to support with a good alternative here.

I don't think it's funny. Just stupid

ETA: this was response to @anonlawyer

I had some things on a hard drive that exploded, which would have supported my first pessimistic response to this, but I managed to retrieve some of them from an even older hard drive.

First there is a presentation from an "academic" called Francis Green. He was privately educated and now he makes a living from attacking independent schools. 35 minutes in (slide 16 in the pdf) he discusses ways to discourage parents from choosing independent schools through taxation and discriminatory university admissions.

https://www.lse.ac.uk/Events/Events-Assets/PDF/2019/01-LT/20190211-Engines-of-Privilege-presentation.pdf

He has written a book about it and probably numerous papers. In "The Necessity of Reforming Britain's Private Schools", which is attached below, he says:

"A reform strategy needs to be both feasible and effective. In Green and Kynaston (2019), we consider a number of proposals that fit this bill. On the one hand, one can attempt to diminish the demand for private schooling by parents, with the result that many schools would have to close or transfer over to the state sector. Taxing school fees is the most direct method, for example through the imposition of VAT; removing charitable status is another (though this also comes with considerable obstacles, and would not make much difference beyond the symbolic); imposing strong contextual admissions requirements on elite universities would also have a notable effect."

I don't know if this polemic was peer reviewed but the scholarship is "interesting". On page one for example he tells us that: "In academic terms, private schooling is shown to improve children’s performance in both low-stakes tests and high stakes public exams." In support of which he cites Smith-Woolley who in fact concludes that "...exam differences between school types are primarily due to the heritable characteristics involved in pupil admission." He also cites Crawford and Vignoles who do not support his statement; and Henderson who show "no private school advantage for attending an elite university". I stopped looking for anything that might support his assertion at this point.

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10077819/7/Green_VoR_FORUM_61_2_web.pdf

So no, I don't think discrimination by school type is going to end. Cambridge is merely weighing up which is more problematic, "too many" privately educated students under its roof, or state-educated students lagging too far behind them.

Sorry about the length but it is a very interesting phenomenon.

No it absolutely isn't. Which part of the application process are you so sure that it helps with? Many doctors actively dissuade their DC from becoming doctors nowadays so the inverse is probably more true.