Is Trinity Hall Cambridge right about elite schools?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jan/07/cambridge-college-elite-private-schools-student-recruitment

Interesting position but maybe there are those at Cambridge that think encouraging students from the state sector has gone too far? Wonder if other colleges will follow suit.

@wiffin Not exactly. The highest earning people are often very bright people with high achieving dc. Elite schools aren’t easy to get into and many still have generous scholarships and bursaries too. There aren’t that many parents who can afford these schools that aren’t smart and have had a great education themselves. Therefore you would expect many very able dc attending who would be suitable for Oxbridge. I don’t see anything wrong with having this discussion. If you don’t like it, don’t join in.

Kindly stop clouding the issue with facts..

Mind you. In a world where some people ‘believe’ 👀 that some women have penises, anything goes.

Which medical schools have no A-Level requirement?

You make it sound as though pupils decide which subjects a school should provide, rather than the school (or government through the EBacc).

There is little difference between the uptake of Latin and German, 1000 vs 2400 A-level entries in 2024. Greek is an outlier because of its difficulty, its uptake is poor even in independent schools - 202 A-level entries for all schools in 2024; there are easier ways to get into Oxbridge for classics if that is what you want to do.

https://www.medschools.ac.uk/for-students/applying-to-medical-school/entry-requirements/

“I’m just a lowly PPEist but I idolise the chemistry crew” appears to be the political sentiment.

If the UK wanted to really grow the economy it could do a lot worse than focus on finance and creative arts, you’re dead right @Londonmummy66

The truth is we need a variety of people to ensure we do well as a country. Lurching from favouring one set of pupils to another is unsettling. I can quite see why private school dc are less interested in being doctors. It what I said earlier - it’s whinging and unionized. These dc aren’t familiar with this. They probably are not wanting to be state school teachers either. I don’t know if that’s true but I bet most privately educated teachers work in private schools.

I don't think I made it sound like that at all. I was absolutely saying that it is schools that decide what pupils can take and no state school is going to be employing a teacher to teach five students instead of employing one to teach thirty or more.

So German has more than twice the entries of Latin. Then there are French and Spanish which are both significantly more popular than German. And others too, of course, most of which will be offered in independent schools because of the employing teachers and having to pay them thing. MFLs are sadly in decline but it's nowhere near as low as the levels of Latin teaching or uptake. If you look at GCSE entries the numbers of MFL entries are hugely greater than Latin etc.

DD went to an independent school on a 100% bursary and had the luxury of being able to take one of her GCSE MFLs in a class of four pupils and had a choice of 8 languages in total, all of which would have run even if just one pupil wanted to do that subject. I don't see that happening in any state school unless a whole bunch of money is made available. Which it won't be and the reasons for that are completely obvious. She also had a place at a superselective grammar and they offered two MFLs and Latin - can't see this very academic and successful school doing that because of what the pupils might like to learn. It is 100% down to money and what state schools can actually afford.

Nobody should be taking any subject because it's easier to get into Cambridge (or any other university)! Young people should study things they are genuinely interested in. Unfortunately if you are at a state school you probably won't get to find out if you are interested in Russian, Italian or Ancient Greek, through no fault of the school, the government or the pupils. There is, unfortunately, just not enough money for that. The choice is always to try to prioritise the subjects that lots of children will want to take, for very obvious reasons.

Which standard entry course doesn't require A-levels? I have never been aware of any.

Hull, Greater Manchester

In the context of this thread it’s probably appropriate to point out the class differences for people working in creative industries and attending their events.

People from more middle-class backgrounds continue to dominate the sector, see here.

It continues

• There has been a widening gap in the last year between who engages with arts and culture by socio-economic background (comparing 2022/23 with 2023/24). For example, there has been a 9% increase in the gap between ‘middle class’ and ‘working class’ people attending a live music performance, and a 7% increase in the gap for ‘attending an art exhibition’.
• There is a large variation in engagement in cultural activities by socio-economic background, e.g. 51% of people in ‘managerial/professional households’ have been to the theatre in the last 12 months, whereas the figure for ‘semi-routine / working class’ was 26%.
• The class differences are largest for museums and galleries, with 54% for managerial/professional and 31% for semi-routine/working class. In nearly all cases, Black and Asian people are less likely than people in other minority ethnic groups to have engaged in the DCMS categorised arts, culture and heritage activities. For example, 23% of Black people and 19% of Asian people had attended live music, compared with 42% of White people.

The Arts may bring in money to the country, but it’s not a shining example of diversity.

3 A-Levels with a minimum prediction of AAB? www.hyms.ac.uk/medicine/entry-requirements/entry-requirements-medicine

@DearestItIsSnowing Do you not think that’s just shifting interests though? There are many families who would not encourage music or theatre going for example. Different cultures take differing views too. Often the poorest cultures would not go to arts events, even free ones on the doorstep. It’s fairly clear they prefer different things for leisure. Not everyone of course but it’s fairly clear that some people are not remotely interested in the arts.

I have no idea, there may be none, which would be my guess, but they amount to only 32 out of approximately 270 possible medicine courses.

A standard entry course is not where anyone would look if they have awful A-levels (or no A-levels) and want to do medicine.

Absolutely this. Some of the comments on this are so ridiculous and chippy. Did we get better doctors thirty or so years ago when, if you wanted to study Medicine, if mummy or daddy was a doctor and you went to the right type of school (and you had Grade 8 flute), you were probably 80% there?

Exactly, none and I would hazard that the vast majority of doctors qualify through standard entry medical degrees and many greatly exceed the A-Level entry requirements.

I agree. My comment was in the context of @Londonmummy66 ’s (not in bold), which I don’t dispute:

And Labour are now funding an extra £2000 for Maths and Science heavy A levels at Sixth Form. To encourage even more of that to “boost the economy”.
The irony when it is the arts rather than STEM which is the second biggest contributor the economy (after finance).

That is, if you gave more money to the Arts it might be helping the ‘middle class’ rather than the ‘working class’, and White people rather than Asian or Black ones.
I’m using terms from the article I quoted.

@Foucaultspenguin You surely don’t think having mummy and/or daddy as a doctor is not of great benefit now? It definitely is! Plenty of dc of doctors and vets follow their parents and of course they have an advantage!

Yes. Because no one cared about school type or extracurriculars, or subjective impressions garnered from interviews. Academic results were paramount.

Re my previous comment, there are about 90 courses, I was duplicating lists.

If you think that in the absence of A-levels a 2.2 and masters in a humanities field sets you up to be a competent doctor after four years of PBL you probably shouldn't be criticising the quality of anyone else's comments.

If my DC wanted to become builders or plumbers or hairdressers or actors or singers, I wouldn't even know where to start, this would be google search from scratch.
I can help a lot with the world of finance and large corporates though. What's wrong with this?
It's been like this for centuries, kids who follow their parents trades have better support.

Apology, I misread the original post about lowering requirements as no AAA, not no A-levels as such.

It is more of an advantage now than it ever was, because the process has become overcomplicated. It is almost impossible to apply successfully without a great deal of help.

Paradoxically the UCAT, that was supposed to "level the playing field", preferentially disadvantages low socioeconomic status applicants with good A-level results. The whole work experience nonsense compounds matters.

Fifty years ago if you had good O level results you filled in a very simple form, ranking five choices, and were accepted or not. None of the present BS.

I have a child applying to university this year. The process has not been particularly complicated and she hasn't needed any support from me with it. I don't know what people mean by the process being overcomplicated. It's been very simple.

It isn't complicated if you have flawless academics, score highly on the UCAT without tutoring, naturally present well at interview, and have an innate understanding of medical practice.

For everyone else there are Mumsnet medicine admission threads.