dd 16 - law

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Dd wants to do Law at university. She is very academic and predicted excellent GCSEs. I know next to nothing about the law profession but would like to help improve her chances to get a place at a good university. She is a passionate reader, loves politics and history and has a strong sense of social justice. While very academic and high achieving she is going through a quite insecure phase and lacks confidence in herself.

I am aware there is the LNAt test, which she might need to take. When should she start practicing for this, and how does she best prepare for this? Is there an app, books? When does she sign up for the LNAt and how?

Are there any courses to prepare prospective applicants to improve chances of getting a place on a reputable law course as there are for medicine and other subjects? Doing an internships seems impossible, she tried and was turned down in year 10. She will be looking for a part-time job in the summer after her GCSEs, are there any type of jobs altho would be looks at favourably?

I have seen ads for summer schools most of which cost £££ - are there any more affordable type of law summer school courses and are the any good'? We do not qualify for any widening participation type of schemes.

@Lobbygobbler yes, that’s true. However there are opportunities in the Eu offices and sometimes reading law advice you would think only a law degree was useful. In fact lawyers have varied skills and many are career changers with degrees in stem subjects. You can develop into a lawyer at any stage of a previous career and be successful.

I hope DD’s German will come in useful - if she gets her first choice she’ll study Law with Law in Europe at Oxford. It’s insanely competitive though so we are just waiting to hear now.

It’s reassuring to hear that Oxbridge isn’t the be all and end all though.

Social Justice is absolutely an area of law, OP look up the legal education foundation/ justice first fellowship they are a grant foundation that fund trainee solicitors who wish to pursue social justice law. They fund in organisations such as housing, education, childrens, disability, immigration etc law. All v much social justice concerns. Would be for after your daughter has graduated if she is looking to qualify. At the very least their list of host organisations could give her a lot to think about.

I’m sure it will be. Best of luck to her.

My DD did the pathways to law course - there’s lots of different criteria to meet.

She really enjoyed the course and she got contextual offers too

https://pathwaysprogrammes.suttontrust.com/am-i-eligible

i see your DD isn’t in a private school so may meet the criteria

you don’t have to meet all of it, they just consider the other points when assessing the application

On the languages front, I speak another language nearly fluently and this has had zero impact on my career. At present I happen to have a couple of cases on for clients from that country and although it’s helpful to be able to speak their language, if I didn’t I’d still have got the cases and they all speak very good English anyway.

A technical background of some kind (engineering, science, computing) is very useful for various areas of legal practice.

@SmoothCollie it’s not mainstream law and someone should not be advised to have set ideas at 16. Funding charities are not employing many lawyers and it’s a tiny element of the law in terms of qualifying as a solicitor or barrister. The attached is listing the areas of law that are widely recognised. Lawyers work at specialisms in these headings.

@Lobbygobbler I have two law study related questions for you which I hope don't take the thread off topic (I don't think they do),

What do you think of the conversion courses and other options at the University of Law? We are specifically looking at the Bristol location.

My other question is what kind of law background in terms of study, do you think is best suited for the civil service law positions (or doesn't it matter)?

Thanks!

Ds is in Y13 and has applied for Law, at only top unis, as he wants to be a barrister. He is doing all stem subjects and didn't even think about doing Law until he went to a talk on it in Y12. He did go to a day course in Manchester and sat in at our local crown court. Apart from that, all he's done is read a few books. He only started preparing for the LNAT a month or so before he needed to do it, which was pretty silly as he's not even doing an essay subject for A Level. He must have done ok though, as he got an Oxford interview (waiting to hear if he has an offer 😬).

Big law firms will offer work experience/internships too. I know Ashurst do; they have offices all over.

Other people will be able to answer this question better than I can. However what I would say is that looking at the young people I know who have recently secured highly competitive pupillages and training contracts in excellent sets and firms, there is a mix of both UoL and BPP. One person I know had to do theirs at BPP as the firm they now work at were funding it and made it a condition. Interestingly they did it at one of their regional schools but the firm is London/international. Another young person went to UoL and now has a plum pupillage. They got a first in a subject which isn’t law from Cambridge.
I think a good idea is to identify places where they may like to work and email the recruiter/pupillage committee and ask if they have any preferences.
Really not sure about the civil service question. Perhaps have a look on LinkedIn and see if their recent recruits can give any clues. You could also ring their recruitment team again and get answers from the horses mouth.
I hope that helps. Others may have better answers.

Good luck to your DS. DD has applied to New College. It’s a very tense wait!

@Lobbygobbler Thank you very much, this is helpful.

@BeNimbleUmberGoose If dc wants to work in London, I would do the conversion in London. Otherwise it makes no difference if it’s BPP or Ulaw.

Do the civil service say what they are looking for? My dd is a barrister but doesn’t know anyone who is at the employed bar. Dc could look at CPS too. Civil service is still keen on Oxbridge when you look at the stats!

You don’t need to do the conversion in London if you want to work in London. I think recruiters recognise that it’s an expensive year for students and many of them will need to live at home as it’s cost prohibitive to expect them to pay London rent on top of studying full time. If you hear of any chambers or law firm that don’t grasp this they’re probably best avoided anyway.

Most City law firms dictate where students must do law school, as they have dedicated courses for their own cohorts. So I wouldn’t fret too much about choosing a law school until you’ve got a TC offer (and I wouldn’t commit to the cost of law school without a TC offer in place either, since it’s expensive and the skills are not transferable).

DC not looking to become a solicitor, but a barrister and needing to take a conversion course, due to taking History as an undergrad. I am trying to see how a training contract would be applicable to this? Sorry, some of this is new information.

Thank you for your added input. I will say, I'm a little wary of anyone using absolutes based on 2nd hand information, which I think you're tending to do here. Also these absolutes appear to be quickly refuted by actual practicing lawyers.

TCs are for solicitors. Barristers do a pupillage after the Bar Vocational Course (which follows the conversion course) instead of a TC. Many chambers also pay law school fees, like law firms do.

Thank you so much for clarifying. So if you're a History undergrad and you are going to take the conversion and then the BVC, at what stage in this process do you approach chambers?

During your final year of uni, as if you get an offer then the set of chambers will (depending on the chambers but most commercial sets in London do this) pay law school fees and also give a living allowance for the 2 years of law school.

It’s very very competitive and many people have to try several times to get a pupillage offer.

@Elektra1 @BeNimbleUmberGooseHmm. Not what DD did. Last year at university she applied for mini pupillages and mostly targeted chambers in the area of law she wanted but a few left field ones too. This continued in her GDL year and she did around 10 in the end. During the GDL year she applied for pupillage - there’s a gateway system. Many chambers use it but some don’t. Pupillage comes with money attached but this varies widely. Larger sums can be drawn down on for barrister's course fees - usually impossible to draw down on it for GDL fees as chambers don’t take on non law grads straight from university. Pupils should also get work whilst still a pupil after their first six months but everyone has to plan their finances.

Chambers don’t normally give money for the GDL course. They haven’t given dc pupillage at that stage. What you actually do is apply for scholarships from the Inn of Court you now belong to as a student. These are means tested. However they can be generous.

You then might have pupillage or you might not. If you have, you will be fairly unusual. DD did but upon starting the barristers course, the vast majority didn’t. Dc then really need to concentrate on getting pupillage. Theres often a delay between appointment and starting so many use the time to be a judicial assistant, do a masters etc to enhance their cv.

DC also need to apply for a scholarship from their Inn of Court to help with fees for the barristers course. These are expensive but getting a scholarship or two should be a huge help. Dd got two - one from her Inn and one from her course provider. The provider one was for accuracy. As a non law grad, she had not done mooting. These young people are continually learning and applying for scholarships and pupilage. It’s seriously hard work. There’s a big emphasis put on qualifications and scholarships at the bar so getting something matters as well as academic ability.

Good luck to your dd too! New College is lovely! Ds was interviewed by Brasenose (his choice) and St Anne's.