Uni choices: what you like vs what pays the rent. What would you tell a teenager?

[CForCake]

A younger relative will choose her A level subjects next year and wants to talk about university choices to me and my partner at a family event in a few weeks.

I am curious about comparing views and experiences on how other people have framed the matter of studying what you like vs what pays the rent.

My view is that (almost) any decision can be the right one if it is an informed decision.

So don't study business law or banking thinking you will get the most meaningful, creative, impactful jobs making the world a better place, but at the same time don't study gender or media studies thinking that you will get a high-paying job.

From previous conversations, this girl like STEM subjects and liked the idea of becoming a teacher.
My issue with that is that she may not appreciate that 1 or 2 generations ago a couple with two teacher jobs could buy a flat and raise a family in London, while that has become impossible now, without financial help from the family (which she won't get). She always said she's frugal and doesn't care about money, but there is not wanting a Ferrari and there is not being able to afford rent and childcare. It's easy to say you don't care about money when you don't work and everything is paid for by your parents.

If she brings up teaching again, I would mention that she needs to appreciate that being a teacher is financially very challenging in London, and might mean relocating somewhere else with a cheaper cost of living.

At the same time, I would never tell her to consider banking or law or tech just because of the money.

So what is a reasonable balance?

@LadeOde I don’t agree with pick what you enjoy and it’s an incoherent choice! Not at all. I think though, with sciences, if Physics isn’t your thing and Biology is then go with Biology. Consider Geography and not Chemistry: putting Geog and Biology with maths won’t close off too much and opens other doors very wide. Not allowed to say “facilitating subjects” any more, but efficiently they are. I agree that closing choices down if you aren’t sure of career goals makes no sense.

I do believe, by and large, in sensible grouping of subjects and not random choices which can leave dc struggling to get on degrees at 18. My point was that if someone is good at everything, doing 3-4 sensibly grouped A levels within the over arching “what do you enjoy most” makes sense.

Its probably use of English where dc are caught out at work. Writing poorly and spelling mistakes will be noticed. I think maths can be honed for the job. Most people who are less keen on maths swerve it at A level and in work, However DD as a divorce lawyer uses maths but it’s all about matrimonial finance, not deeper maths so with an A at GCSE, it’s fine and her maths skills are good enough. Written work is of course top drawer.

@OhDear111 I completely agree, especially with what you said about grouping subjects, that really is the crux of it. Too often people overlook that point, and young people are left thinking they can just pick 3 subjects they like if they’re unsure. In reality, there’s a method to the choices, and the way subjects are combined can make a big difference to the options they’ll have later.

Another point I’d add is that it’s really useful to look closely at entry requirements, GCSEs as well as A'Levels for the more selective universities. If a student can meet the subject requirements for those courses (or at least come close), they’ll almost certainly meet the requirements anywhere else. Too often you hear of someone who didn’t realise that, beyond A'levels, they also needed a minimum grade 7 in Maths for a particular course, or that two science subjects were required rather than one but it's too late to change their A'Level subjects or preferred course. Universities also weigh subject combinations when deciding between candidates with similar grades, especially where they have not previously indicated preferred subjects. E.g if it comes down to two applicants with similar profiles for Computer Science, but one with Maths, History and Economics, and the other with Physics, Maths and Economics, the latter may well be preferred because the subjects align more closely with the course.

@LadeOde Also some universities give a weighting to GCSEs as well as A levels. I agree it’s best to keep options open with combinations and check they make sense if you have an inkling about what course. The Cambridge university guide is still the best guide to choosing A levels for competitive courses.

I think the problem is, a fair few scientific careers require a mix of subjects that effectively hog all your choices, which is a big failing of the A-level system for people who genuinely are good at and enjoy a wide range of subjects, because they require you to specialise at too young an age, before you are really ready. A-levels favour people who have specific weaknesses and strengths. Unfortunately, very few places offer the IB, particularly in the state sector, in the UK.

@Walkaround Yes but you can still read books, take an active interest in music, drama or sport. Keep interested in Geography and History without doing A levels on them. The biggest piece of the jigsaw that is missed is high quality writing and presentation skills in the science curriculum. Also speaking in public as hardly anyone does drama. These are skills for life not just for the few who act. We don’t need the expensive IB and more exams but we do need a broader education in 6th forms.

Please don't report me for trolling hunting, but am I the only one that thinks the OP is AI? The overly long, complicated and often contradictory responses don't ring true.

Taking an interest in history is not the same thing as developing your own research skills, source analysis and understanding different perspectives - it’s not really knowledge of past dates and events that makes history a respected A-level subject. Likewise, I am sure skills gained or honed from studying geography are not the same thing as the knowledge acquired from just keeping yourself informed about it. Music, sport and drama are easier to access for the less well off if provided in school but, especially since Covid, the breadth, depth and quality of the provision in these subjects can be extremely patchy, especially if you are not recognised as being sufficiently talented to make it onto schools sports teams and it is no longer even a compulsory part of the curriculum. So yes, a broader education would be good.

Well, the OP certainly has a split personality and is quite possibly sometimes chatting amongst themselves.🤣

@Walkaround That’s somewhat dismissive of what some dc do regarding history and geography. You seem to be looking at degree level skills for history - not the grind it can be in reality. A broad knowledge of any interest of subject is good if you are following a fairly narrow science curriculum. Certainly presenting and speaking skills should be encouraged. This is partly why some privately educated dc have better people skills and confidence. They get broader opportunities - not just academics.

I think that uni is such an important developmental time for our children. It's when they start to grow into adults.

I'd want them to be doing a subject that interes and excites them duing this period.

here will be many years of job based drudgery ahead, so I'm in favour of them enjoying this time.

My daughter’s university service (Bristol) was incredibly unhelpful with dated advice. I am envious of the great careers depts I am hearing about here!

The really vital skill that all students need to acquire is the ability to research and appraise information, draw data-driven conclusions and make very fast informed decisions that they can defend with confidence in writing and speech: fast critical thinking, which is inevitably subject dependent. Everyone needs it and unfortunately not all university degrees are equal when it comes to developing it.

Otherwise, it is important to do a degree in a subject you enjoy because it will be hard to build on something you aren't especially keen on.