Is Doxbridge a thing?

[mids2019]

Oxford and Cambridge both outside top 3 in uni rankings for first time https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15114137/Oxford-Cambridge-outside-three-prestigious-university-rankings-time-London-School-Economics-first.html?ito=native_share_article-top

I think the DM was trying to make a point about social inclusion but given the Times is a reputable university of guide is this a beginning of a shift where Oxbridge aren't undisputed in their dominance?

Durham is a really good university and in 2025 is it that Oxford and Cambridge have competitors?

I would add that my own dd didn't even bother applying for Oxbridge as she didn't like their courses in her chosen subject.

I went to Imperial, DSis went to Oxford. Imperial ranked above Oxford at the time, but I would still say over the course of our lives (we're in 40s now) Oxford has been more highly regarded by others across all walks of life.

I earn more, she enjoys her job far more.

I work in London where employees are international so Oxford & Cambridge will be recognised by non-Brits whereas many of the others won't be.

One of DSis' best friends at Oxford had imposter syndrome the whole time and it really knocked her confidence being there.

This topic is so much more complex than rankings...

DD16 is just starting sixth form - she would like to try for Oxford but also seems quite pragmatic about it - understands that very low % get in and excellent candidates often don't make the cut. Also really likes the look of Exeter and some others.

I think that the key for young people applying to university is to balance being aspirational with not being crushingly disappointed if their first choice - whatever that may be - doesn't pan out. Because some of this is luck and our of their control. I do firmly believe that the most successful people are happy and secure.

I think it's always ranked high. FWIW, my nephew got a First at Oxbridge and resisted pressure to stay there to do postgraduate work, instead going to St Andrew's. He thought St Andrew's was considerably better, both in its teaching and research and as a university.

It is sad. I never went to Oxford but it’s aspirational isn’t it. Just incredible buildings, history, teaching, city. However you only have to look at the recent palava with the debate committee and Charlie Kirk to think something’s gone terribly wrong.

The comments by their next elected head was abhorrent.

And I watched the debate. So strange. No one even bothered to debate him. And the said next head was slouching about in trackie bums. Even a teacher just sat there being scolded like a naughty teen. Bizarre.

I’ve only ever heard people from Durham use doxbridge and it always sounds a bit desperate. It really depends on the course. Imperial College is possibly the top university for STEM but I don’t know how many choose it over Cambridge, if they have the option.

The 'woke' thing is going to continue in my opinion and universities are going to be pulled into culture wars which will be a distraction to their primary purpose. Original thinking should not be suppressed by group think.

What’s that got to do with these rankings?

When was that? My DD didn’t hear anything of the kind.

”Doxbridge” is so new to me I’d assumed it was referring to Oxford and Cambridge students doxxing each other/being doxxed!

I guess one question is whether there is a by point to rankings in the first place? Should reputation be the only metric of success?

I think higher education is changing and aspirations are becoming more nuanced. With plenty of kids having rafts of top A level grades alongside GCSE it has become more and more apparent they those incredibly bright children that are rejected by Oxbridge are being done so with fine margins. Where do those bright young things go......up North to Durham?

The big difference between then and now is that we are paying for university. So lots of things need to be factored in once that’s in play.

There are a lot of good universities here. Oxbridge isn’t the be all and end all - it didn’t for instance do what I wanted to study so it was useless for me. But I still went to a very good university. For others the teaching style won’t suit them. Or it’s too expensive. Or too far from home.

But far too many schools just waffle on about Oxbridge. It’s tedious.

Normally an international maths Olympiad would get an immediate place to do maths at Cambridge. I assume he was rejected because he failed STEP. Lots of very smart kids fail STEP and do brilliantly elsewhere. It’s one of the hardest courses to get onto nationwide.

@Hellohelga - yes, it’s possible, I don’t know the details of what happened exactly, nor can I remember which of the elite private schools this was.

I also think there are pupils on track for 3 or 4 A stars who don’t want to engage with the extra admissions process Oxbridge demands, at a crucial point in Year 13, because they would rather focus on their work/extracurricular/whatever else is keeping them very busy.

The top most elite unis do not do clearing but some of the others closely behind may get some high calibre students in the process?

Doxbridge is a new one for me but I thought Loxbridge had been the thing for a little while now? I.e. Oxbridge plus the top London unis (Imperial, LSE, UCL).

Has Oxbridge really watered down its standards to prioritise state school pupils over private ones as some people claim?

Take Lucy Cavendish College which has the highest proportion of state school pupils at Cambridge (over 90%). The average A levels of their state school applicants for STEM courses is 3 A stars, for humanities it's 2.5 A stars.

Haven’t reas read the full thread but Oxbridge definitely beat for the humanities as the contact hours are high, the students get individual seminars and expectations are high compared to other unis. In other unis, there is so much less prescriptive work and students own reading that contributes to success. I am not in any way saying the same degree at Oxbridge is easier but that the students receive a lot more guidance and hand holding

Absolutely this. My DD15 is interested but will have to navigate through the maze of admissions.

I was in the same boat. Wanted to apply and was probably bright enough. Found the decision making and process really difficult. Which one, Oxford or Cambridge? How on earth you work out which colleges to target? There seemed to be so many variables, and I suppose ultimately I didn't care enough to work through them or find someone to help me.

I was having a ball in 6th form, going to parties, taking part in all kinds of extra curricular things, had a Saturday job and a dodgy boyfriend from the wrong side of the tracks who I was obsessed with 😂 and in the end I was a teen who just couldn't be arsed with it.

Got 3 As and went to Warwick, had a brilliant experience, year abroad, great friends. Sometimes I think I should have pushed myself to apply to Oxbridge but it was the right decision at the time.

I also did a joint honours degree which wouldn't have been possible at Oxbridge and that was a key part of the decision as well.

Late 40s now and high earner in the city. I honestly think the joint degree made me more employable.

One of DD’s friends turned down Oxford to go to Imperial.

I went to Durham 30 years ago, and in my experience and subject area, it wasn't remotely amazing, it was a huge disappointment and I was a massive swot. I did my 1st year at Nottingham, and it was much better. (Moved for financial reasons)

Only about 21% of applicants to Cambridge get an offer, and in the end only about 16% of applicants are eventually accepted (the rest not making their grades). Last year over 22,000 applicants. That’s a lot of very smart students that will end up choosing other universities. It seems bonkers to be branding all these excellent kids as “oxbridge rejects” - they all will be applying to multiple universities, generally amongst the top ranked ones. Durham has been sitting in that group for years. As have plenty of others. Durham made offers to about 67% of applicants in 2023. Bristol 55%. Warwick 63%.

They’re all turning out excellent students. Who are all at the start of their careers. Oxford and Cambridge have got centuries of reputational head start on many of the others - this is why the various uni ranking tables are great, they gather stats and info on lots of relevant areas, compare them and build ranking tables. Each guide ends up with a different order. The orders change around a bit year on year. The only sensible way to view it is to look for some consistency and understand that it’s all on fine nuance and a whole variety of competing pluses and minuses. It’s not built on general reputation.

Outside of the UK nobody has heard of Durham. I went to Durham myself and while it was a fun three years, i wouldn’t say the quality of education was particularly good/rigorous.

Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial and LSE are the only Unis with a good reputation outside of the UK

I think it’s pretty normal for most countries to have only heard of the top handful of well known or historical universities from a country that’s not your own, or not closely associated with it.

The scale should be on % of students who believe humans can not change sex.

Exactly my thought as well. To me it's only Oxbridge. LSE for social sciences, Imperial for the natural sciences.

👏👏👏👏👏

I actually know a few people who did. One for Imperial, another for Manchester (I believe some specialist course or something there), one for medicine (think at the time it actually wasn’t highly rated / not as practical as the other course they accepted) and I think a couple of others who just didn’t like the Oxbridge environment for them - at least one went to Durham IIRC.

However, “Doxbridge” just sounds like the annoying MN habit of everything being “Dear” or “Darling” - so “DOxbridge” (probably accurate for some posters tbf)

Can you expand on what made Durham the superior choice to you? Why bother applying to Oxbridge at all if you know you'll choose Durham? It seems extremely unlikely to me that you would get rejected from Durham but not Oxbridge