Oxbridge graduates who can’t get a job

[AquaLeader]

Interesting article in The Times this morning.

Meet the Oxbridge graduates who can’t get a (good) job -
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxbridge-graduates-cant-get-good-job-d9ddj9dff

It is unlikely to be a coincidence that the graduates highlighted all appear to hold degrees in the humanities.

@Dearover yes but I’m talking 5 or 6 years with absolutely nothing. Not the majority of yp applying but there was a noticeable amount.

The title should be changed from 'Oxbridge grads can't get a job to' Oxbridge grads can't get the job they wish ' but obviously the former works a lot more from a journalistic perspective.

All the grads I would think could get jobs in a career like teaching but we could put forward (controversially obviously) that should Oxbridge grads 'settle' for roles like teaching when graduate from newer universities join teacher training schemes and in reality once in the scheme the 1st from Oxford offers no adavantage. I know it will sound elitist but maybe there is a little bit of a point here; we push our children to get into possibly the two best universities on the planet and afterwards out then on the same playing field as any other graduate with a 2:1 or first. This is an interesting discussion I am sure that has been had before but I would think with these graduates the lack of doors being flung opening has left some chagrin .

DD has had very little paid work. Her academics are excellent. I do worry that this bright able YP will be discriminated against for focusing entirely on her academics? Is that such an awful thing?? Being academically brilliant is no longer seen as an achievement?

She was COVID effected in last years of school/first years of uni. Not easy to get jobs. She also, like a pp, has had issues and didn't have the bandwidth to do both study and work. That doesn't mean she can't work. She did do some volunteering and work in a cafe, but honestly, that really doesn't put you above anyone else surely.

@mids2019 They didn’t all take mainstream school subjects though. At my school all our maths teachers were Oxbridge graduates. All 6 of them. (Small grammar). Lots of the teachers were Oxbridge and it wasn’t seen as a third rate job. However many young people see teaching now as a fairly horrible job. They do know what it’s like!

@Tizerorfizz

That's an interesting discussion the status and job satisfaction within teaching.

I went to a very minor private school on an assisted place very much back in the day. The school very much advertised the number of Oxbridge educated teachers as an advert for the school for prospective free paying parents.

I don't know the current centralised scheme for teacher training very well but I don't believe you would be guaranteed a place at a grammar and remember grammars are relatively rare now. One could say again from an elitist perspective why put Oxbridge grads in an inner city do not where no one is interested in learning (a perspective not necessarily the egalitarian one).

If the focus is on work experience, internships and career planning would it be better to go to Durham or Bristol where the study is less intense and there will be more time to focus on vocation?

@Cakeandusername would you really screen out for example an international sportsperson with an Oxbridge 2:1 or first because they had not had the time for employment during their summer holidays? Seems a bit reductionist even if you have plenty of other candidates to fill the posts. I suppose firms never know the quality of the candidates who get filtered out by outsourced HR/ AI.

Yep my DD’s selective independent school: head mistress - Cambridge; Co-Head of Sixth Form - Oxford : A level History teacher - Oxford. The rest of the senior staff come from (several from each) Durham, LSE, Edinburgh, Bristol and so on. Not sure any of them would consider that they have ‘settled’ for teaching!

@monstrosity

I don't want to derail but getting a job in an elite private school may be looked on differently to a standard comp. It's an interesting discussion though as I know I have questions about the teaching ability of some teachers at my daughter's comp and its worrying.

Simply gaining admission to Oxbridge or other ‘elite ‘ universities is no longer enough.
Academic excellence is important, but it is not the whole picture
Students need to be willing to go beyond the classroom and put in the legwork , gaining real world experience through internships , voluntary work, part time jobs or other meaningful opportunities.
Some graduates achieve First Class degrees but find themselves unemployed because they spent all their time solely focused on academics .Meanwhile , others who might not have achieved the same grades have spent time building work experience, networking and developing professional skills. When they graduate they are better positioned for the job market .
I think that ( whether they want to admit it or not , ) some Oxbridge graduates almost feel entitled to the elite jobs and feel that they do not have to make an effort because their university speaks for itself

@Lampzade

Playing devil's advocate could you argue all the job related activity would be more easily achieved in a newer university which allegedly have a more vocational bent i.e. course more closely related to employment.

In which case you start to dissuade people from pinnacles of academic excellence as their obvious intellectual ability is in danger of being missed by employers? (especially if they start to rely on university blind applications and mandate a range of work experience)

Being a good teacher is not dependent on the university you attended ., trust me

It's interesting that you feel the need to list the universities attended by school staff, as if their worth as teachers depends on Oxbridge or Russell Group credentials. That sort of academic name-dropping does come across as a bit snobbish, to be honest. Great teaching is not the preserve of those who went to so called top universities. There are plenty of brilliant teachers who come from a wide range of backgrounds. Placing so much emphasis on where someone studied rather misses the point. Of course, if you’re paying those fees, you really need to believe it’s all worth it, don’t you? Nothing like a good dose of Oxbridge and Russell Group credentials to settle any lingering doubts.

@ShippingA Private schools frequently list where staff went to university. My grammar did too. There weren’t many universities in those days and it mattered to parents that schools could attract academic staff. Not that they were all brilliant teachers!

Musing whilst deadheading in the garden, and returning to the conversation.

I do wonder whether that's why there is so much unhappiness in the younger generations. Constantly having their goalposts moved. Get top marks in your exams, move up, move up, get better marks, get into the top universities, get a first. But you can't kick back at all, ever. No rest for you, no blissful summers of idleness. You need to work at that cafe, that shop, keep working, working, until you prove you are worthy of @Cakeandusername notice.

No wonder they are all burnt out before they even begin their 40+ years in the workplace (if they ever get an interview).

While I'm at it...... What happens if, as now, all those entry level jobs are gone?!

Striving for academic excellence is a commendable goal and there is absolutely nothing wrong with aiming to do well in one’s studies.
However, it is important that students explore opportunities that enhance their employability .This is something that students should do for themselves , particularly those students who attend universities where the sole focus is on academic excellence and not on employability
Many newer universities and some of the older universities are more focused on employability and industry engagement .
This approach reflects the reality which is that for most the ultimate goal of higher education is to secure meaningful employment .

@HostaCentral If you come from a nice big house and don’t need to pay rent and can spend your days in idyllic surroundings doing next to nothing - great. Most dc cannot have this forever. They might do a gap year but that’s it. Also who needs months doing nothing? Only university students apparently. Worker bees who work from age 16 or 18 don’t get this luxury. I certainly didn’t. So do only clever people deserve this?

It’s clear there are too many grads chasing too few jobs. Hence the scramble for better universities and stem degrees. No grad here had a stem degree. The competition for jobs is significant for non stem grads and many dc have to concentrate on their cv. That doesn’t mean they don’t have holidays or fun times. They just don’t spend month after month and year after year not building their cv.

@sendsummer Yes they wouldn’t meet one of essential criteria. Don’t meet essential criteria and you can’t make cut for interview.
In area i’m recruiting to in legal we deal with members of public.
If all they have done since school is play sport and study they won’t have skills we need.
Most people who pursue hobbies to high level also work often related to it eg coaching children, gym reception etc.
We don’t have an AI/HR sift I see the lot.
My current trainee represented her uni at sport, 1st class degree, lots of work experience/vacation schemes/mini pupillages plus relevant customer facing paid work. Legal is ultra competitive though.

Of course they do as the Oxbridge brand sells exceptionally well to aspirational middle class parents. What would be far more interesting though is if the school staff included a little blurb explaining exactly how being an Oxbridge alumnus or alumna makes them the best possible teacher in their subject, rather than merely name dropping.

@HostaCentral Months of idleness has never been normal though.
Summer break is 3 or 4 months long. It’s not all or nothing. Most yp manage to do what they enjoy plus work.
Like I say we are absolutely inundated with applications so no need to take a punt on a 22 yr old who has never had a job before.

My DC attended an offer-holder's event for an Imperial engineering course and the admissions tutor and one of the students both said few of their students had part time jobs because due to intensive study - similar advice to Oxbridge - yet their engineering graduates are highly employable. So for those jobless Oxbridge grads their choice of course is a big part of their issue. Oxbridge simply churns out more highly educated Humanities grads than the job market really needs.

@truzty

That's going to be a bit of an ouch to Oxbridge humanities graduates!

I work in ST EM and my admittedly biased perspective is that there are a lot more engineering/science/computing science jobs out there than those immediately linked to humanities.

A cautionary tale about degree choice?

@HostaCentral its not discriminating against academics. I think what a lot of parents and yp don’t realise is there’s lots of yp out there with the same top academics plus all the extras
The way they qualify with us is to do postgraduate SQE exams and work at same time, so they need bandwidth for work and study.
It was same with my dc’s peers who got competitive degree apprenticeships at 18/19 - just A and A stars not enough they wanted to see the yp could juggle pt work and achieve top academics too.

@truzty
I think the PT job while at university thing doesn't apply for engineering. An internship or two that is directly related to the engineering specialty would be far more useful. A cousin of mine had the chance to get tremendous summer experience in civil engineering and was the first in his graduating class to get a job.

For humanities grads, a proven track record including jobs while at university tells employers that you are a go getter, can manage your time, can prioritise tasks, are trainable, can deal with all sorts of people, are not precious about your intelligence or intellect in general, and perhaps that you didn't have to devote all your waking hours to your studies but still got a good result.