Sociology and French - how to choose which uni

[Gillemeow]

My teen wants to do Sociology and French at a university in the North. We have discounted Durham as their sociology degrees are very criminology heavy so that leaves Manchester ABB, Newcastle AAB (should be offered BBC via their Partners Programme) and Liverpool BBB.

On paper Manchester has the best course and reputation but we got a really bad vibe at the open day. It felt like the university really weren't bothered about people applying to them, the signage was rubbish - we got lost several times and the accommodation is really expensive and dingy. The subject talks basically repeated what's already on the prospectus pages and the students didn't seem particularly enthusiastic about their courses.

We got a really good vibe at Liverpool but the sociology course doesn't offer much choice so isn't the preferred option. It does do a really good work experience based module in the third year that I think would improve employment prospects. They also seem to have the best student satisfaction results out of the 3.

Newcastle is the current favourite. Lovely accommodation, good course, great vibe from lecturers and students (who had come back after graduating to promote the courses) and they went the extra mile by offering taster lectures which the other 2 didn't.

Teen is taking English Language, French and Sociology and is likely to be predicted A star, A star, A in that order.

We plan on revisiting the 3 unis in the autumn open days to give Manchester another chance. A few people I know said Manchester gave them the same "don't care about the students" vibe.

So I guess what I'm asking is, how important is the feeling you get from visiting a university? Is a bad vibe but great module offer and excellent academic reputation more important than a great vibe and good course offer? Should an employment based module working on sociological research be a big factor in the decision (Newcastle and Manchester don't offer this).

If we get the Newcastle Partners Programme offer of BBC what on earth do we put as our insurance? I'm wondering if we put Liverpool, as whilst their headline offer is BBB, their historical data on UCAS shows they have accepted CCC.

Any advice appreciated.

Hi OP. That's an interesting combination, which I am guessing limits options a bit? Durham is excellent for sociology now. They have some great lecturers . DD could look up Kimberley Jamie, who isn't a criminologist. Does Lancaster offer this degree combination? Excellent in both subjects, and in the North!

BTW, DS got the same feeling from Leeds during online Covid times. Stuff from Sheffield, York, Bath and Birmingham was far better. We then all got really bad vibes from a Birmingham offer holder day but he liked the course on paper, applied and the chaos was real! All turned out fine as he swapped to history. Should say this was originally sociology and social policy degrees. Brum included economics. So, I think impressions can get those spidey senses tingling.

Has your DD looked into Liberal Arts? Lots of module choice.

I would suggest going back on a non-open day. Send your kid alone, let them sit in the library, walk the halls of the dept, hang out in the cafeteria etc.

I did this years ago before there were any open days and it was eye opening. No one is expecting you there, you're fairly incognito as a non-student and they are not putting on a show (however lackluster) for visitors.

You can even go into the office of the dept to ask questions.

Manchester is probably the best place for doing this because it is already huge and on an open day will be teaming with extra people.

Thanks. Teen really doesn't like the module options at Durham.

Lancaster doesn't offer the Sociology and French combination and TBH we'd prefer a uni based in a city.

Thanks.

We looked at Liberal arts but the only one that includes French is York and they don't offer sociology.

Sociology is useful for the ultimate career goal of being a social researcher and French is because they don't want to lose their language skills and love the subject.

If we get the Newcastle Partners Programme offer of BBC what on earth do we put as our insurance?

What's this we business?! Take a big step back and let your child decide for themselves where they want to spend three years of their life.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure how we would do it though, as they would be in college on days the uni is open.

I'm a lecturer though not in these subjects. Be VERY wary of universities restructuring and redundancies. Not only may the options offered not exist in four years time (which is inevitable with sabbaticals and people going on maternity leave, retiring or moving) but many places may actually be shutting their departments.

Yes the Italian lecturer at Manchester was at pains to stress this to us. He said Manchester was solvent and would continue to offer language courses. He also cautioned against any delay in starting language courses with gap years etc. TBH it felt a bit like he was saying it was too risky to study languages anywhere else.

Liverpool have recently built their languages suite and stressed they intended to continue with languages in the subject talk.

I asked questions at Newcastle about course continuation. I know they have made redundancies but all were "voluntary".

Based on my research Manchester is the most solvent, followed by Liverpool. Newcastle made a loss but think the recent redundancies put them back on track. They do extra stuff to encourage participation like offering a free taster week at the uni in August for their Partners Programme students, which impressed me.

My understanding is if you start a course the uni is contractually obliged to let you complete it so I'm hoping that a 2026 start would mean they're all solvent enough to keep the courses open for another year.

I'm hoping that as all our current options are established Russell Group unis they're unlikely to go bust. Sociology in particular should be more profitable than science or language degrees as it's mainly lectures based, which is cheaper than the extra support needed for other subjects.

It does make me extremely wary of what to select as an insurance offer. Realistically if we don't put Liverpool in the hope of them offering down to CCC (based on historical offer data) we'll have to look at ex poly unis to get offers below Newcastle's Partners Programme offer of BBC.

You mean they don't offer sociology in their Liberal Arts? Because they certainly have it as a subject!

Remember, modules change as lecturers come and go.

What sort of modules would she like? If she wants to do policy research, she should look more at a social policy degree. It might be the 'with French' bit that's constraining things.

I'm surprised at Lancaster. You can combine nearly all subjects there.

My understanding is if you start a course the uni is contractually obliged to let you complete
This is technically true but a young friend of mine started on an Arts course and they had closed down her department by the time she finished and she had to do a lot of history courses to make up her practical degree. It really wasn't the same.

Sociology is useful for the ultimate career goal of being a social researcher and French is because they don't want to lose their language skills and love the subject

Why can't they keep up their French in other ways, such as studying Sociology at York but enrolling in the languages for all programme?

If the French is going to limit the choice of good options to study Sociology might it not be worth considering dropping the French and maintaining it by other means?

I also think there is too much "we" in your posts. "We'd" prefer a uni in a city. Surely this should be "they'd", as in your teen, prefer a uni in a city.

They have their heart set on joint honours. We explored languages for all at Leeds, Warwick and Sheffield but they decided against going down that route. Their reasoning is that they want to be fluent in French and want to become fluent enough to cope well with the year abroad. They are naturally pretty clever but do better with set learning than doing it off their own back.

They aren't too concerned about the options being only Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle as they're all Russell Group. It's more about whether the vibe from Manchester should rule it out, and if the first choice ends up as Newcastle with a BBC Partners Programme offer, if putting Liverpool who are on paper BBB but have accepted CCC in the past would be ok. Both Newcastle and Manchester have historically never accepted below BBC.

Thanks for the info.

Sorry, yes no sociology in their liberal arts. Lancaster only offer sociology with criminology.

With french is definitely constraining things but they have their heart set on joint honours. That said, they would be ok with the courses at Newcastle, Liverpool or Manchester, it's more about whether the bad vibe from the Manchester open day should rule it out. And what to do about the insurance back up if Newcastle is first choice.

Good shout re social policy. Liverpool is much more balanced between sociology and social policy in the first year, which could inform more social policy courses in the second and fourth year's. Will look into that.

They are interested in modules about gender, sexuality, class, inequality, education, social research methods, families and relationships and health. Quite a wide breath so it should be ok if lecturers change. It's just that with Durham (other uni in the North that does sociology and French) they are top rated for sociology and it looks like 2/3 of the "sociology" modules are criminology related.

My daughter is just about to go into her 3rd year at Durham studying sociology and bar one 20 credit optional module in her 1st yr has done nothing on criminology. She has really enjoyed her course and has had some great lecturers (including Kim Jamie mentioned by @Piggywaspushedwho taught the medical sociology module dd did in yr 2). Neither her diss or any of her chosen 3rd yr modules are criminology based. There is a separate criminology degree offered by Durham.

@Gillemeowive just read the list of subjects your dc is interested in and it was essentially my DD’s 2nd year modules. I have another child at Manchester studying philosophy and politics so the same broad department as sociology and the module choices etc have been great (they did one sociology module in their 2nd year which they enjoyed).

Manchester and Durham are VERY different however - pretty much as different as you can get so I would consider carefully the type of uni they want.

these are the module options for sociology at Durham;

https://apps.dur.ac.uk/faculty.handbook/2025/UG/programme/L300

fwiw my dd looked also at York, Lancaster, Sheffield and Birmingham and had offers from all - she liked the Lancaster course but insured York (despite Lancaster giving her a v low offer). She has said retrospectively that she is pleased she firmed Durham as the course is much more “weighty” then the one at York.

Would French / Sociology come under CHSS at Durham? Depending on the amount of French they want they could do straight sociology and take a 20 credit language module each year.

"If we get the Newcastle Partners Programme offer of BBC what on earth do we put as our insurance? I'm wondering if we put Liverpool, as whilst their headline offer is BBB, their historical data on UCAS shows they have accepted CCC."

I'd say that, given your DD is predicted AstarAstarA, if she is offered and decides to firm Newcastle at BBC (or even if she firms Liverpool at BBB) she honestly doesn't need an insurance as she's highly likely to make those grades and in the highly unlikely event she doesn't I'd say either of those unis would probably accept her anyway. It's not compulsory to have an insurance especially if your firm is very achievable.

Fwiw DD also visited Manchester, for different but similar subjects, but ruled it out. I went with her to the offer day and was also very underwhelmed by the day, the uni and students.

With this degree you need the highest ranking university. What’s the plan afterwards? What job? No one will care about modules but getting into an easy to get into uni isn’t very challenging. Durham is easily the best.

I dont think the difference in status between Manchester and Newcastle is anything to worry about, if there is one at all. If shes planning to "use" her degree in jobs in social work and/or local government these are not employers who are going to worry about the finer details of league details.

A happy student is one who will make the most of the opportunities offered to them both in work and extra curricular.

I went to a prestigious uni and suspect the benefit of the name has been cancelled out by the fact I was too intimidated to join clubs or try anything out. I didnt learn many skills I should have My DD, at a middling uni, takes part in all sorts of things.

It depends on what environment she wants to live in. To a certain extent the universities she's considering are are on par so the next most important thing is what she wants from it. Durham is quiet small compared to Liverpool, does she want a bigger city, campus v city university, etc. Durham also has colleges which are an attraction for some but for others puts them off (I personally wouldn't want a college uni). So get her to consider that.

My only caveat for Newcastle is the issues with money, getting rid of lecturers (all unis are facing problems but some more than others). She could look at Exeter for BA Sociology with Modern Languages (she can choose focus on French) and then a BSc Language, Culture and Society at LSE - she can again choose to focus on French and not other languages and the modules are Sociology modules just a different name - there's some choice for a few social policy modules but not compulsory. She could then put Newcastle as insurance depending on how much she likes them. Worse case her insurance has higher grades than her firm (it does happen especially for competitive courses, where the offers tend to all be the same).

But Sociology is great subject (I almost did it at uni myself after doing it at GCSE and A-level). She could do Sociology with Politics at Warwick or Sheffield instead though and do French language modules on the side.
She could still @Gillemeow apply for a year abroad and go to France in that year, this is an option for all courses whether you do a language or not. The only caveat is some unis abroad will stipulate the level you need to be in their language if they teach in it. Not all do sometimes you can go to a uni in Germany and they'll teach the whole thing in English, but obviously you may want to do some German in advance for social events and getting by.

If you want to go abroad then do joint honours that includes French. This is the more demanding subject and the year abroad is an experience for learning others don’t have. What about Bristol? Very good MFLs. I also think many employers won’t care about sociology modules studied. Also optional modules change and there’s choice!

The Durham options show that she took do Sociology With Year Abroad, do one module of French each year and sped her third year studying sociology in France - would she like that? Years abroad are so much better for improving language skills

Actually the Durham course is combined honours and it clearly says Sociology and Criminology are the social sciences option, not sociology on its own.

Also open days are not the best way to judge anything. It’s just having a look around and not all unis see them as selling opportunities. It’s unfair to say Manchester don’t care about students and you have to remember it’s not cuddly school.

Have they considered north of the border? Glasgow seems to offer this combo, not sure about Edinburgh. Both great uni cities, well regarded with flexible courses. We had good open day vibes at both.