Sociology and French - how to choose which uni

[Gillemeow]

My teen wants to do Sociology and French at a university in the North. We have discounted Durham as their sociology degrees are very criminology heavy so that leaves Manchester ABB, Newcastle AAB (should be offered BBC via their Partners Programme) and Liverpool BBB.

On paper Manchester has the best course and reputation but we got a really bad vibe at the open day. It felt like the university really weren't bothered about people applying to them, the signage was rubbish - we got lost several times and the accommodation is really expensive and dingy. The subject talks basically repeated what's already on the prospectus pages and the students didn't seem particularly enthusiastic about their courses.

We got a really good vibe at Liverpool but the sociology course doesn't offer much choice so isn't the preferred option. It does do a really good work experience based module in the third year that I think would improve employment prospects. They also seem to have the best student satisfaction results out of the 3.

Newcastle is the current favourite. Lovely accommodation, good course, great vibe from lecturers and students (who had come back after graduating to promote the courses) and they went the extra mile by offering taster lectures which the other 2 didn't.

Teen is taking English Language, French and Sociology and is likely to be predicted A star, A star, A in that order.

We plan on revisiting the 3 unis in the autumn open days to give Manchester another chance. A few people I know said Manchester gave them the same "don't care about the students" vibe.

So I guess what I'm asking is, how important is the feeling you get from visiting a university? Is a bad vibe but great module offer and excellent academic reputation more important than a great vibe and good course offer? Should an employment based module working on sociological research be a big factor in the decision (Newcastle and Manchester don't offer this).

If we get the Newcastle Partners Programme offer of BBC what on earth do we put as our insurance? I'm wondering if we put Liverpool, as whilst their headline offer is BBB, their historical data on UCAS shows they have accepted CCC.

Any advice appreciated.

Hi, if she is predicted A star, A star, A, is this not all a bit self-limiting? Why does she have to be 'in the north?' Why is she looking at unis requiring CCC?

Also, the fussy eater thing seems like a crazy reason to avoid Durham. Nobody hires clothes for that kind of thing, just any dress would do. And if it's anything like Oxbridge, the formals are completely optional anyway. She really shouldn't get hung up on things like this. If she wants a SC college, there are SC colleges there and she can just state that. If she needs ground floor, she can state that too.

With her predicted grades, she could apply for HSPS at Cambridge. Or MML at Cambridge and then do a Sociology masters? They are well looked after at Cambridge and the college system makes it so easy to find friends, tutors, get special help, etc. Much more personal than huge unis like Manchester. She wouldn't need to eat in college, she can do what she likes. It's really good 'value for money' because they are in very small teaching groups and feel really 'known' by the tutors. They are literally bending over backwards for students with any kinds of disabilities. Why not give it a go?

I don't think the unis require CCC. That's jnfo the OP has found about the grades some entrants had.

HSPS doesn't have any MFL, of course.

I think it's fair enough to discount unis. Durham is excellent , that's not in dispute. But it's also the university that I know the most YPs to have dropped out of , so it doesn't suit everyone. Really the best uni for soc sci is Bath , but that's definitely South!

Not every 18 year old is super confident. Remaining a certain distance from home networks is pretty common. And there are many excellent universities in the North.

BTW, I think we have all assumed gender. OP hasn't said.

Honestly? With those grades I'd apply to Manchester or Durham. The highest ranked uni you can.

Sorry, for some reason I thought it was a DD. Anyway, I agree Bath would also be a great choice. England is a small country - you are never really that far from 'the north' (unless it's the Exeter campus in Falmouth)! 😀

MML at Cambridge has a 40% admission rate. She could do another language as well and be totally fluent in both. I see she does English Lit - so the literature side wouldn't phase her. She could do a year in France, either studying or in a work placement or some split it between both. Then do a Sociology masters of which there are many! Just an idea, because if she is a bit nervous about leaving home and doesn't want a uni with an impersonal vibe, Cambridge (with the college system and the tutorial system) could make her feel much more 'looked after.' Also, a city the size of Cambridge or Bath is much less impersonal than Manchester, Newcastle or Liverpool where students will be much more spread out. It's like UCL - in the second year students live all over the place and many go home and commute.

And if she doesn't like drinking / partying - there's (on average at least) a lot more of that going on in the unis she has selected than elsewhere.

Durham has low drop out rates! Very low. One of the lowest so @Piggywaspushed your anecdotes are scaremongering. Of course the vast majority stay! Bolton, Beds and Wolverhampton are very different! Bath and Durham are almost identical drop out rates. If the teen won’t go south, how is Bath an option? Its MFLs are not great either as modules are narrow. Bristol would be far better but sociology and French doesn’t seem possible.

I said Bath wasn't an option. I'm not scaremongering so stop being silly now.

To be clear, earlier in the thread, I said Durham was the best university. Kitty's DD is happy and succeeding there as discussed. But if the OP's DC is set against it, domestic posters are flogging a dead horse. Most RGs have low drop out rates often because of greater family economic and other securities of the cohorts.

Staying in a region of the UK within a comfortable distance from home is common. Durham is one exception where more students come from the far south.

I mentioned Bath because we are talking about strong universities for social science . Bath specifically focuses on research and policy but if the journey is too much then a uni with Q step is an excellent idea.

What is the reason for limiting to unis in the North?

If she is predicted A star, A star, A she can apply anywhere and nothing is off limits. She doesn't need to be worrying about insurance unis offering reduced entry tariffs of BBC or ones that will take students scraping through clearing in August with CCC.

If they are interested or would consider social research in the civil service this is the criteria they use for the GST Research Officer scheme though its not clear how this applies to joint degrees when it says 30% must be social research methods.

www.gov.uk/guidance/gsr-social-research-scheme

But, other than Cambridge, the entry requirements for most unis are the same north and south. Durham ( North) is an outlier as being higher than most so the North/ South thing doesn't matter. The same spread of AAB to BBB is available in the North...

It's the degree combination that's placing the limits.

Disagree about careers in research needing a PhD. not true these days.

Q-step programmes are definitely worth a look and (biased view) why aren’t Edinburgh or Glasgow on your radar given your location?

@usersame it sounds like DC has perfectly reasonable reasons for wanting to be closer to home. You are allowed to be very bright and not interested in Oxbridge. DSS is doing French and Maths and didn’t like the vibe at Oxford so didn’t apply.
@Gillemeow Manchester is so huge I think it can feel impersonal. Added to the fact Man Met is right next to it there is a very busy studenty vibe in the city but lots of accommodation is outside the city. I did my BA at Liverpool lifetimes ago and now work in social research despite not doing sociology, I did do a social science and have subsequently done MSc and PhD.
you have to like the place you are living, choosing one good uni or another also good uni is not going to make or break a career. We really need to stop telling young people that their whole life depends only on the choices they make now!

I don't think her GCSEs would get her into Cambridge and it looks like she definitely wants to do Sociology and French BA and I doubt would be willing to do it at masters and do MML instead. She got a 5 in GCSE English which rules out some choices. That rules out Bath and others as she wants that joint combo and also wants to be up north and not too far away. OP has already said she wouldn't he willing to do a Sociology degree and then French language modules on the side, or do a combo with Sociology and Modern Languages in general (so not sure if she'd like the contents of MML). I think the same applies for not having Sociology in the degree.

Plus yes Durham is a very good university but if she doesn't feel in general it's the right fit (even if she's focusing on smaller things, she might have other reasons) then she should avoid it. It's a good university but it doesn't mean it's right for her, and when comparing between the few she's looking at, I'd prioritise her feel at the univeristy (because she'll be there for 4 years) over ranking or prestige. But as mentioned above I'd have a look at Scotland, Edinburgh isn't too far over the border (they are strict with GCSEs though and I have seen that for some courses they're only looking for EU/international students but I think that may be for this year's clearing and their solvency issues). At this point I'd consider the feel and where she fits best, Liverpool and Newcastle seem to be the best for this and have great courses.

With these needs about course, how will the year abroad pan out? With huge difficulty I think.

If you want to progress in your career, either in the private sector and certainly academia in social science a PhD these days is pretty essential- I don’t know of anyone progressing without one. Agree q step is a great option though.

Apologies, I didn't know about the GCSE profile. I was just responding really to the comment about Manchester feeling impersonal. It stands to reason it would do really as it's a huge uni in the UK's second largest city with Manchester Met also nearby. People often have the same concerns about UCL. City unis, north or south, are obviously not for everyone.

You’ve got to love mumsnet - any mention of a sociology degree will bring the comments that they’re worthless and anyone can get into do one 😂

As a couple of people have mention QA / data analysis (don’t know correct terminology) I thought I’d share my dd’s experience at Durham where there is a reasonable amount of this. Dd has non traditional A levels for sociology (Biology, Chemistry and Psychology - fwiw she got 2 x a stars and an a which seems fairly usual at Durham with the vast majority exceeding the AAB offer). Anyway many students from purely humanities A levels have found these modules really challenging however dd’s background meant she found them straightforward and scored highly - so it’s worth considering science A levels and how they compliment sociology - same with medical sociology really.

Durham isn’t for everyone (I have a child at Manchester who would detest Durham) but dd loves it - she is at Chads - Bailey, gowned and catered. The Bailey colleges do seem to attract a higher % of privately educated students and those from v privileged backgrounds. Dd is 1st gen, state educated and personality wise would not be considered a typical Durham student but she absolutely loves it. She has experienced some classism but not from her college and from the 2 colleges which have had bad press in the past for this. I know it’s always said that people love whichever college they end up at but dd has said that her experience would have been very different at a Hill College which she feels are more like halls of residence maybe. There is no expectation to attend formals / balls and so on and there is no pressure to drink. Durham however is not as diverse a university in any way as Manchester. That said all RG unis are pretty middle class.

it’s also worth bearing in mind that neither Durham nor Manchester are campus unis - regarding the OP York would be a really good fit for your dc needs - the Halls on the new campus (is that the East one?) and within minutes flat walking distance of the sociology dept.

Wow, I wasn't expecting quite so many responses, thanks all.

Here's some points to clarify some misunderstandings and explain our reasoning about applying to universities in the North of England:

1. GCSEs - I don't think I mentioned these but they got 8 in English Language and Maths. Overall 3 9s, 5 8s, 3 6s (Further Maths, Art and English Literature - this one was a surprise, school recommended a remark but it stayed a 6).
2. Not sure how relevant this is but teen took AS Core maths this year as recommended to all sociology students by their college. Predicted an A.
3. Plans to do a sociology based EPQ next academic year.
4. Taking English Language a level, not Literature but likes literature so French literature is fine.
5. They want a uni not too far from home because of the disability, which is usually manageable if accessibility needs are met but can flare up in certain circumstances. So not Scotland or the South. The hope is after 2 years away at uni they will be confident enough to study at a French uni. We have friends in France and access to a house.
6. Teen doesn't want the high pressure academic atmosphere of Oxbridge. I'm not sure if the GCSE grades are good enough and as we're at the end of year 12 I don't think there's time to go down this route even if they wanted to.
7. Teen is a bit short of extra curricular stuff so I don't think Oxbridge would consider them anyway. I have reservations about this for Durham too.
8. We will contact Durham about teen's accessibility needs. It's not a wheelchair room that's needed but ensuite, ground floor step free access and near the uni. From what I can tell all self catering accommodation is NOT near the uni, with 14 minutes being the closest. On Google maps it looks like there are lots of steps onsite at that one. We have also booked on the next open day. Good to know formals aren't compulsory.
9. CCC is Liverpool's lowest historically accepted grades. I mentioned this because any Newcastle offer is likely to be reduced from AAB to BBC due to the partners programme and Liverpool is BBB. I was trying to see if it's worth having Liverpool as the insurance offer if Newcastle is first choice due to their lower historical acceptance grades

10. I know someone predicted A star, A star, A that had a nightmare exam season and ended up with BBB, despite requesting remarks and having extenuating circumstances. Teen doesn't want to go into clearing and wants a good back up uni and Liverpool seems like a great option.

Thanks for the Durham info, we are definitely going to investigate this. York doesn't offer sociology and french unfortunately.

@Gillemeowwhen you say near the university, Durham is not a campus university and there are various things dotted about throughout the city. I think sometimes people think the science site is the uni - dd has had nothing there in her 2 years at Durham and doesn’t go to the Billy B library as she prefers her college library. All her lectures have been at Elvet Riverside - there is talk about moving some / all of sociology to the Old Business School which is actually right by the Hill Colleges

FWIW , OP, many people on here and people I have known have really high praise for Liverpool Uni.

Good to know, I was measuring from the sociology building. I'll wait to hear from Durham about closeness then. I've also been warned about hills and cobbles but we can check that out on the open day.

Newcastle is campus based and some accommodation is 4 mins from sociology and French departments. Liverpool isn't too.bad either.

The sociology dept is on Old Elvet - dd went once in Freshers week - since then everything has been at Elvet Riverside. Her college is next to cathedral and will be about 25 mins walk to Old Business School if things move there (it is literally next door to Aidens, Van Mildert and John Snow) - French would probably be in Elvet Riverside. The science site (what people call the university often) is just science (but not psychology) although at open day they do everything there which creates a rather false impression. If you go to the Sept Open Day dd is a tour guide at Chads and will happily speak about sociology.