Sociology and French - how to choose which uni

[Gillemeow]

My teen wants to do Sociology and French at a university in the North. We have discounted Durham as their sociology degrees are very criminology heavy so that leaves Manchester ABB, Newcastle AAB (should be offered BBC via their Partners Programme) and Liverpool BBB.

On paper Manchester has the best course and reputation but we got a really bad vibe at the open day. It felt like the university really weren't bothered about people applying to them, the signage was rubbish - we got lost several times and the accommodation is really expensive and dingy. The subject talks basically repeated what's already on the prospectus pages and the students didn't seem particularly enthusiastic about their courses.

We got a really good vibe at Liverpool but the sociology course doesn't offer much choice so isn't the preferred option. It does do a really good work experience based module in the third year that I think would improve employment prospects. They also seem to have the best student satisfaction results out of the 3.

Newcastle is the current favourite. Lovely accommodation, good course, great vibe from lecturers and students (who had come back after graduating to promote the courses) and they went the extra mile by offering taster lectures which the other 2 didn't.

Teen is taking English Language, French and Sociology and is likely to be predicted A star, A star, A in that order.

We plan on revisiting the 3 unis in the autumn open days to give Manchester another chance. A few people I know said Manchester gave them the same "don't care about the students" vibe.

So I guess what I'm asking is, how important is the feeling you get from visiting a university? Is a bad vibe but great module offer and excellent academic reputation more important than a great vibe and good course offer? Should an employment based module working on sociological research be a big factor in the decision (Newcastle and Manchester don't offer this).

If we get the Newcastle Partners Programme offer of BBC what on earth do we put as our insurance? I'm wondering if we put Liverpool, as whilst their headline offer is BBB, their historical data on UCAS shows they have accepted CCC.

Any advice appreciated.

@Abracadabra12 Years abroad are better prep for life! They demonstrate something about the young person and it’s an achievement to complete it.

That’s just down to the structure of the department - and the fact that Durham offers both sociology and criminology degrees - for Lib Arts they would need to take 60 credits a year for sociology. Yes there are some criminology options but also in the first year for instance some foundational sociology modules - details are here

https://apps.dur.ac.uk/faculty.handbook/2025/UG/programme/LA01

TBH anyone looking to do joint honours would be silly not to do the 40 credits Socities in transition and then either social research methods or classical sociological theory for 20 credits - all 3 are compulsory first year modules for the sociology BA and I would say are essential for anyone wishing to study sociology. They also are not criminology modules.

https://apps.dur.ac.uk/faculty.handbook/2025/UG/search?department=Sociology

I genuinely think the OP dc has misunderstood the structure of the course but at the end of the day it’s their choice.

Regarding Manchester without giving details the support within the social sciences department was exceptional when my dc accessed it 3 years ago.

Well Durham label it Sociology and Criminology but yes, students get some choice buf obviously criminology is catered for.

Thanks for everyone's responses.

For the people suggesting Durham, my teen is an extremely picky eater so a catered hall (seems to be loads at Durham) won't work and they would consider the gowned meals absolute torture. College allocation seems quite random (a friend's daughter was allocated the opposite college to the ones she'd preferenced) so they wouldn't want to risk being put in a college they hate. My teen has a disability so would need to be based close to the uni so that drastically cuts down the options too.

They have their heart set on a northern uni (we live in Yorkshire) so Exeter is out. They won't even consider London.

They want to do combined honours French, 50:50, not a languages for all or a sociology with a year abroad. This is because they want to become fluent and have a good level of fluency to be ready to study sociology in French during the year abroad.

This means the decision is between:

1. Manchester, best course and academic reputation on paper but got a bad vibe from the open day and the accommodation is grim and hugely expensive. It also has the highest grade requirements of ABB. Given that people are saying not to base decisions on module options because lecturers may change, that means it's main appeal is it's academic reputation and solvency.

1. Newcastle good course, slight solvency concerns (but they say on track after volunary redundancies this year), amazing (and cheapest) accommodation, best vibe from the open day and lowest entry requirement of BBC (although usual offer is AAB, which is highest out of the 3). They also do a taster week in the August before starting for Partner Programme students, which would be a great way to get to know people before the hectic Freshers week.

1. Liverpool ok course but great work related module.in year 3 that I think would improve employment prospects, nice accommodation (reasonable price), good vibes from the open day and hopefully a very achievable entry requirement of BBB but have accepted CCC in the past, making it a good insurance offer.

They're all based in cities they like that aren't too far from home. Newcastle is the favourite city, followed by Manchester.

It sounds like Newcastle would be the best choice.
It doesn't sound like your teen likes Manchester at all. They shouldn't go to a university they don't like where they didnt even enjoy the open day and put themselves through 3 years of that just because it has the best reputation on paper.
For what it's worth, I studied a science at York and actually somewhere else with a better reputation had been my first choice until I went to the interview day and really hated it whereas I loved York straightaway.
That's why I mentioned upthread the Languages for All programme at York, which I also participated in. Thank you for explaining why that wouldn't be suitable for your teen.

Go with Newcastle and put Liverpool as insurance but it really doesn't matter because with high predictions it's extremely unlikely they won't meet the Newcastle offer unless something disastrous happens and if that were to be the case that's likely to be a scenario where the entire thing might need to be rethought anyway.

@Gillemeow I would make sure you apply for DSA when she applies for student finance. You don't pay the money back, and it gets you assistative technology and other things which can be useful to make university easier with the disability. I'd also get in contact in the few months before exams with the university Disability Support, they often say earlier is better so then they can make the Learning Support Plan whether this be trying to make all lectures on the ground floor or giving students priority preference for modules (espeically in low contact hour subjects) so that you can either spread out hours and have more rest or maybe put more things on a few days and more days to go through it. Sometimes if you need speicifc accommodation (say an en-suite for a disability) they often subside the cost. So if a shared bath was 7k but you needed an en-suite due to disability making it 8.5k they can cut the cost somewhat. Even things like not needing as much evidence for attendance issues, getting exam arrangements (eating,extra time, rest breaks etc). Universities have more onus on what they do so can offer a lot. I know she doesn't like Durham but in the case of needing closer accommodation they often will then give priority if it's due to disability.

What I would say is that you can get very fluent by doing language modules consistently outside of the course. There are different courses for each subject so beginner French and there will be one (dependant on uni so check) at her level most often so she can still grow in the subject.

I do think young people need to be weaned off “hating” a hall of residence and being picky and not liking this and that. No course work placement (and they will have to apply for them, so check how many get anything!) is going to make employers employ a picky difficult person. I’d loosen up the demands a bit. Sociology doesn’t have the greatest employment prospects.

For French
Liverpool ranks (CUG) #11
Newcastle #14
Manchester #16

For Sociology
Liverpool ranks #29
Newcastle #25
Manchester #20

Very close on all of them, so the difference is moot

But university is a big decision you'll be living there for 3 or 4 years and the city and places how you live has a massive impact on your enjoyment and engagement. If anything I think it's could to be somewhat picky, I would have hated colleges and a smaller vibe like Durham. The way a university works and it's structure does matter to the course as well. Espeically when your comparing your last few universities, the finest details matter, even like how you felt on an open day.

Sociology is a very versatile degree and is becoming more popular, there's the obvious careers like teaching but social work, social policy work (think tanks or government or aid development agencies), marketing for companies, HR, strategy, consulting, journalism, probation officer, research jobs, working in charities etc are some of the jobs people going into after a Sociology degree. Plus with many graduate jobs they don't even specificy a degree they just want you to have a 2:1 or above. Also OP's DD isn't doing a work placement year she's doing a year abroad studying at a university in France (one the things she really wants from doing a French degree). I think being picky with a university choice is different to when you're looking for jobs and employment.

I know what you mean about Manchester, OP. My DD wants to do sociology and has taken a gap year so had offers from Manchester and Sheffield, but when we looked at Manchester it just felt like they weren't arsed at all; as though, they know they'll fill the course anyway so there's no need to nake any effort. Also the accommodation situation at Manchester isn't great. She'd had her heart set on Manchester but actually chose Sheffield in the end as she got a better feel at the open day. She also loved the campus at Sheffield.

@TheLivelyViper A work related module. Apologies. It’s pretty meaningless really. I’d recommend doing some actual work. Far more useful.

Of course sociology is popular! Look at the grades. It’s always been a way into a decent university without needing to be a genius. University places have been upped by 50% since 2010 so of course more students go. Look at job prospects though. It’s very very tough now and pretending otherwise is a diservice to young people.

Be picky - but pick the best she can get. Is it a big deal to have a formal meal occasionally? My DDs didn’t approach university like this. They embraced everything and didn’t “hate” anything. It’s a bit more mature and confident and playing the long game. Maybe the people who get exercised about young northern students not applying to Oxbridge should read the list of hates.

Getting a job in a think tank is as rare as hens teeth.

More and more think tanks are doing entry level roles though and it doesn't have to be the biggest ones there's many policy groups out there for jobs on forming policy or even just conducting the research. She could also work for ONS or similar research jobs. Education companies, exam boards Ofquel. Ofcom and other regulators have good policy and research jobs as well.

Yes Sociology grades are lower but it is a very hard subject, there's lots of research and good critical skills and nuance. I also think more people if they did it at GCSE or A-level would learn a lot about the world and its a very useful subject even though people like to mock it as irrelevant. Someone I know who did their PhD in Sociology about communication of science and misinformation was talking to me about how people say her work is stupid and she explains that her work can save lives. She studies how to communicate science well to people and how to prevent the misinformation which is so important. Trust in doctors and science is down and it won't be rebuilt by more journal papers (not many people read them) instead they turn to social media. Now there are very useful doctors on social media who act responsibly the share awareness but don't give medical advice and I think this is a good thing. But unfortunately people cannot decifer fact and fiction, I've seen people warning against ultrasounds in pregnancy and any testing, saying not to take folic acid. Or people recommending detol washes of your vagina, people saying that if you don't have a period then microplastics spread and you get sick (obviously if you're not naturally having a period you should see a doctor, but they were talking about people who perhaps use the coil to bleed less or jot have periods and controlled menstrual suppression with a doctor). And people believe this and they do it, so research like her's is so important. Many people have high grades and do the subject and if they meet the requirements they meet them. It's a very important subject and not as easy as people suggest.

Yes I agree you shouldn't be picky about everything but it is a big decision and it's not like she's considering 10 courses and being indecisive because she's picky. I would hate something like formal dinners and it does have a lot to do with the schools culture so if that's a deal breaker then she shouldn't go. She should go to a uni which feels like the right place and then throw herself into as much as possible there to grow and even just be open-minded. She could just do languages courses on the side but that would depend on the universities investment into them and even though not many offer the course if she's not willing to compromise then she might as well be picky.

Not sure what you mean by a work related module. If it's a Sociology module about work then it can be useful in the subject, looking at people's relationship with work, employment in politics and barriers to certain types of employment, why it can contribute to poverty etc. Or do you mean a module on career etc, I wouldn't do a whole module on it but going to the universities career service and any talks and events they have can be very useful. Also getting internships throughout uni, whether formally or informally. If she wants to do research, doing it with her lectures etc will be good for applications in social research and getting experience combined with expertise from her degree.

Kitty's DD literally does the Durham course so I'm not sure what the point is of telling her she's wrong...

Sociology grades are no lower than they are for other hums and social sciences.

If Durham is out of the question, then I'd suggest Newcastle would fit your DC best from the picture you are building , OP but offer holder days will help when you get to that stage.

@TheLivelyViper I think the think tank roles as a new grad are like hens teeth. Dc have no real experience or knowledge of anything. I do know a friend of DDs works for one but didn’t study sociology and has 4 MFLs and is super bright. Even she had to work her way into one.

It was rhe op who said work related module. I guess op knows what it is. Probably a project? No idea hence my slight scepticism.

Who really cares about PhDs in sociology? Only people who teach I imagine.

Thanks to everyone for the useful replies.

It's very helpful to know that the Durham sociology modules aren't as criminology heavy as the course summary indicates. Given that they currently have 2 free slots on the UCAS form, my teen will email Durham to find out which college provides rooms that will meet their disability needs, namely close to the uni, self catering, ground floor en suite with shower. We can then explore that college's requirements about formals.

The nervousness about formals is:

1. They live in trainers, jeans and baggy t-shirts so dressing up every 2 weeks in a formal dress/lounge suit doesn't really appeal. Then there's the cost of buying or hiring clothes and shoes to attend.
2. They are a very picky eater (hence need for self catering) so may not like some or all of the 3 courses on offer.
3. They only drink water (related to picky eating) so it may not be much fun if everyone else is drunk.
4. I think you have to pay for these things if you're self catered, which isn't going to be great value if you won't be eating or drinking anything.

We will definitely look into DSA. We had never really considered this but the disability does necessitate an en suite close to the uni, which does increase the cost.

The module I was referring to at Liverpool is the Interchange Portfolio: work-based learning
Credits: 30
Semester: Whole Session
The module gives you the opportunity to engage in either an applied social research project or a distinct work project in collaboration with a local Voluntary Community Organisation (VCO).This is organised through the charity ‘Interchange’, based in the SLSJ.

Re formals at Durham, it’s a while since I was there, but they weren’t compulsory at my college (St Aidan’s). Also, from what I’ve heard there are many students who choose not to drink there days so your daughter will not be the only one. I hope she loves wherever she goes!

Not necessarily. If Manchester is 20th that's a drop from a previous ranking. Sometimes it is better to look at the trajectory of a uni in the rankings rather than its current one. Shows where investment is being targeted

Formals are not compulsory in Durham.
The website reveals clearly which of the 17 colleges are catered and which self catered or offering both. The info is also there about en-suites etc.
All unis accommodate documented special needs for en-suites, ground floor rooms etc.

Durham (like others) has provision of early arrival and a special settling in programme for those who need it. The needs mentioned wouldn’t be unusual or improvided for.

It’s good to stay open minded and research thoroughly. Teens often develop instant prejudices based on hearsay or one online comment. Check out the websites and accessibility pages, but don’t shut off the top options before considering properly.

But then, even the top options won’t appeal to all for various reasons. People don’t pick Durham if they want huge city or not to go far north. Fair enough! They have plenty of applicants!

And it’s true that with non-vocational degrees, going somewhere with a good name is worth an awful lot. Lecturers heard at Open Days often move in and modules definitely vary year to year or a guarantee of a place on a module of preference isn’t guaranteed. So yes, of course the course structure and content is importsnt but an element of flexibility is also vital too. Some students get support with this via DSA - counselling help with independent living, time management, living with others, coping with changes on courses etc.

I’d say parents can play a key role with students who might have some of these struggles, in terms of reading through course content online, reading about accommodation and accessibility provision etc and talking it all through. Some students need more support and it’s def not the case that it’s their independent decision and they do best to make it alone.

Maybe have another look at Manchester and Durham. Offer holder days are usually better than open days. DD did a social research placement and both unis were well represented (and students very able especially Durham). Manchester has a Q Step Centre (DDs uni has same and they guaranteed paid internships for students who did quants courses).

Yes, Q Step is definitely an asset.

Explain trajectory in terms of future rankings?

What employer really cares about rankings for sociology? Hardly any.

If she’s serious about a career in research she will need to do an MSc and PhD. There won’t be much difference in which uni she went to but she would be greatly advantaged by getting a first. I would choose the uni that plays most to her strengths and interests. And gives her a solid grounding in quant and quality methods.

didn't you say this, earlier in the thread? have you forgotten your train of thought, got confused along the way? do elaborate!!

"With this degree you need the highest ranking university. What’s the plan afterwards? What job? No one will care about modules but getting into an easy to get into uni isn’t very challenging. Durham is easily the best."

Oh yes. But I meant rankings as posted. I meant between Manchester, Liverpool and I think Newcastle? I wasn’t clear. Between universities at their level it will not matter and employers won’t care. If they look at university, Durham is best. But course details don’t matter that much if going for generalist jobs.