Oxford open day next week :how are we supposed to fit it all in? How do we know which colleges to look at

[Opendaymaddnes]

Hello I'm trying to get my head around the open day and distances. The subject talk is quite early but it looks like we could spend all day at the subject talk area meeting tutors but we need to look at accommodation options also and colleges.

I've googled the best colleges for her subject and I hope to visit three? Does this sound like a plan? Is this what uther people do?

I very much agree with the first sentence of this. There is so much hyperbole and misinformation about Oxbridge and the type/calibre of people who go there.
My kids have had a statistically below-average state education in a moderately deprived/ low progression area. I think the biggest advantage having Oxford-educated parents has given my DD in terms of her application is the knowledge that not everyone who goes there is 'weird' or 'a genius' or incredibly rich or posh or gifted.

@thedoofus But they had the advantage of your education and going to a less then great school in a not so great area. These days that’s a big plus for them. Oxford likes these candidates!

I mean, I think that’s absolutely true. My point was only that I got a place without any of that, or any school support or coaching or attending an open day, and certainly without being ultra-clever. That it was possible. This was very, very early internet days, so little or nothing online either — these days, there’s so much freely available online, which is obviously great, and democratising, but there’s obviously also a matching expectation that a candidate will have done a lot more research because the material is there. I doubt anyone who showed up for interview as unprepared as I was would get very far in 2025.

@GluttonousHag But parents who know the ropes are giving a dc a huge advantage and decent genes. School won’t matter that much other than tick the deprived area box but other dc won’t have the expectations or knowledge of the Oxbridge educated parents.

It reminds me of all the dc doing MFL degrees who are half French (or ? MFL). Not only do they already have a good knowledge of the MFL, they have had endless holidays there and often parents who know exactly what’s required to get into Oxford! They are obviously coached in terms of what they read and discuss in their subject. Who else gets this? They don’t look advantaged, but they clearly are. Compare that with others who have learnt MFLs just in secondary school and no parental help at all. Parents can very much help dc far more then just saying it’s not full of weird or rich folk!

@josuk "For the courses that have 10% rate of admissions - 90% did not get in. At least half of them should have not taken themselves through the stress of applying because they did not have a realistic chance."

I think it would be impossible, and unfair, for anyone - the candidates, their teachers, the Oxford tutors - to try to identify the half who would "not have a realistic chance" ahead of the process. If you look at the lowest MAT scores that achieve an offer they're typically low 40s, even in the 30s.

If someone is consistently scoring less than 30 in their MAT scores then they will not have a realistic chance but I doubt there are many such candidates. Most will have had a spread of marks from their practice tests, hopefully showing a vaguely increasing trend, and some marks will have been reasonably competitive. For many on the day it won't work out though, through the stress of the actual day, poor time management, or just the probabilistic to-and-fro of the marks they've been achieving.

Also from the applicant's point of view, they've come to open days, hopefully liked the place and course, and aspire now to study there. That's a lot of psychological inertia and I think there would be quite a bit of stress decoupling from the process. Also, not that you're suggesting it, any out-loud suggestion that half of them don't have a realistic chance would lose a good number of applicants, but not the ones Oxford is looking to lose, just the unconfident.

Finally, for an aspiring mathmo to be practising the MAT is just good for their advancement anyway. Oxford prospective mathematicians are usually becoming bored of A-level by that point and have some extension material, like the MAT, is good preparation for any university.

Of course they had the advantage of our education. I wasn't suggesting and wouldn't suggest otherwise. My kids, like all kids, have a unique set of advantages, disadvantages, privileges, drawbacks etc based on their own personalities, abilities etc as well as the environment they've grown up in. I do feel, and it's my feeling, rather than anything more, that seeing Oxbridge people as 'normal' and 'like us' has been helpful for my kids in the context of the wider educational environment they've grown up in.
I think it's ridiculous and deeply unhelpful to suggest that going to a less that great school in a not so great area is an actual advantage. I assume you mean the way Oxford contextualises GCSEs and WP/contexual schemes more generally. They are (imperfect) attempts to level the playing field - people are hardly gaming the system by sending their kids to their local school!

@user1469447079

I broadly agree, and pf course it’s not as easy to tell those who don’t have a realistic chance.
And predicted grades in quantitative subjects where it’s fairly easy to tell ability/attainment is one of the (imperfect) proxies….

I especially agree with ‘ Oxford prospective mathematicians are usually becoming bored of A-level by that point and have some extension material, like the MAT, is good preparation for any university’….
Same is true for Physics and PAT.

However - I simply have not met anyone who’d be this good/gifted in Maths/Physics to be bored of it and finding it easy by Sept of the second year of A levels, and who need extension - YET not able to achieve A star predicted just a few months earlier.
Maybe those kids exist.

Specifically for I’d probably say - unless in prep (without time pressure and stress) - you consistently score below 50 - and do NOT have contextual background - one should probably not bother applying.

There are 3-4 offers in total with low scores - and i am sure, they are contextual.
You need 70 to be shortlisted. You can get extra 10 points for stellar GSCEs. And Oxford physics Dept said it plainly - they don’t care much what is on your personal statement.
So - it’s all about performance at the test.
And then interview, that outweights everything.

Here is the data for physics offers and scores

@josuk can you point me in the right direction to find that information for maths applicants please?

Towards the bottom of www.maths.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate-study/maths-admissions-test

@josuk
"However - I simply have not met anyone who’d be this good/gifted in Maths/Physics to be bored of it and finding it easy by Sept of the second year of A levels, and who need extension - YET not able to achieve A star predicted just a few months earlier. Maybe those kids exist."

I'm not sure what point you're addressing here. Pretty much all the Oxford maths applicants are predicted A * A * in M/FM and would be quickly deselected if not. That would be a waste of an application (unless there are serious contextual aspects).

"Specifically for I’d probably say - unless in prep (without time pressure and stress) - you consistently score below 50 - and do NOT have contextual background - one should probably not bother applying."

But none of us know how many of the applicants this is describing.

And the interview(s) don't outweigh everything else, these really are holistic decisions, though I agree the PS rarely has any influence.

@thedoofus Of course it’s a plus to be a contextual applicant. You could have paid for DCs education if you wanted to or chosen higher paying career paths, but you preferred to be where you are. In this day and age that’s a plus especially given your background.

I do agree with you about encouragement though. I tried to encourage DN. We live fairly close to Oxford so family and me had a good look round. Both DN parents have degrees but - “not for the likes of us” apparently. Not much ambition for DN because they don’t have ambition. Having family encouraging, and not poking fun at people who appear to have more money, is an advantage. I was actually shocked. However look at all the others who don’t get this advantage and have similar parents . DN even went to a different school for 6th form to get away from a very clever dc who did go to Oxford. Too clever isn’t desirable in their world either. Neither were the dc in the 6th form at the new school. Too rich apparently. I won’t disclose the city but it’s laughable! DN now doing level 2 job for nhs after graduating with a first.

@TizerorFizz You have no idea at all if I could have paid for my DCs' education, or about my potential career paths (or actual career). And it's not relevant. There are likely to be some kids eligible for WP/consideration who 'deserve' it less than some privately educated kids. People's circumstances are unique and complex. WP is a blunt instrument, but broadly it's better than nothing as a way of evening things up. Suggesting that it confers some sort of actual advantage is disingenuous at best.

My intention in talking about our circumstances is to try to reassure people like the OP that bright, but ordinary, people can fit in at Oxbridge and should consider themselves worthy of an application if they want to make one (there's a poster on another thread at the moment claiming that 'everyone has 5 or 6 a stars'). The system of admissions tests and interviews is designed to try to give everyone equal opportunity and level the playing field so nobody has any great 'inside information'. Of course it isn't perfect or flawless, but it's a considered attempt to recruit what they consider to be the best candidates, and I think anyone who thinks they might be one of those candidates should feel encouraged to feel confident that they have as much opportunity as anyone else.

@thedoofus AFAIAC you're knocking this out of the park. Well said!

When my DD applied for Oxford I expected her to be rejected. She had good GCSEs and was predicted excellent A Levels but we are not an Oxbridge family and had no idea how it all worked. DD did get in and loved it right from the start. So, two years later, DS thought he would give Cambridge a go. He had similar grades to DD and this time I didn’t see it as a massive gamble. DS got a place at Cambridge and he too thrived. Both DC were scholars, graduated with Firsts and have interesting, well paid graduate jobs. It was obviously an advantage for DS having a sister at Oxford but no-one at Cambridge would have know that and as a poster said above, every applicant has a unique set of advantages and disadvantages.

My DS was rejected by Cambridge for Engineering because his maths wasn't strong enough. He got A* in both maths and further maths A levels. Just saying…Grades aren't everything. He did get an interview, but not an offer.

@user1469447079

My post was in response to the upthread discussions where people took it as shocking that in the most competitive courses at Oxford - most successful applicants do have A star predicted for the core subjects.
And I tried to explain that it is NOT because the PG are taken into account, but because the kids that are able to score high enough at MAT, PAT, and medical school entrance test - all mostly, by definition find A levels easy - and as a result have high PG.

You are the first one who agree that it’a the case… ‘Pretty much all the Oxford maths applicants are predicted A * A * in M/FM and would be quickly deselected if not.’
I’d add that it’s definitely true for Physics, Medical Sciences, Computing and Engineering…

And aspirational applications with only minimum required A levels PG - are rarely successful. For Physics, specifically - the min requirement is one A star - in Maths, FM or Physics. Which is not a typical profile of a successful applicant to Physics.
That’s why I was saying one has to realistically assess chances, and strength of contextual offer potential.

As to the weight of the interviews - specifically for Physics - it counts for almost 2/3 of the candidate’s score. Entrance test is about 1/3. And contextual coefficient gives you a 10- max 20 (i think) points.

Have a look at the post-interview score formula - it’s a very transparent system on the selection process.

Once the candidates get their scores - they may add a bi more of additional considerations - but the score is the absolutely main driver…

@blanketsnuggler That’s correct. The tests and interview matter. It’s not just grades. Minimum grade predictions do get offers if they ace the above!

Why do you need to know how many essays? Do you mean for the application, or as part of the course?

@Opendaymaddnes I’ve seen 1 or 2 every 2 weeks quoted elsewhere. However it’s a science course primarily but writing is a key skill I would have thought . They don’t need to see an essay as part of the application. Open days are where questions can be asked but it’s intimidating!

@Opendaymaddnes did you go today? How was it?

We’re just about to leave to travel up ready for a flying start in the morning!

If there are any top tips from today I’d be pleased to read them!

@Muchtoomuchtodo hello!
Wow
The train going was fine but carnage on the way home.Signal failure at Birmingham and hundreds crowding the platform at station.

Over all a fabulous day I really enjoyed myself, beautiful old buildings, twisting alley ways and history are my thing, enjoy every moment exploring this beautiful place
And the gardens and meadows are immense.

You won't feel bad accompanying your child every one we saw was child and parent, some entire families went and I only saw what looked like one group of friends.

We made it to about 6 colleges. Some are huge and tours can take half an hour esp with chatting and aksing questions.

Towards the end I was getting confused with information trying to take pics to remember each one and write down info but I flagged as we went on.

The whole thing was run brilliantly
Even off the train people greeting with maps and loads of helpers everywhere.

Lots of refreshments and snacks, biscuits tea and tea squash. A highlight was resting momentarily in the hall at Christ church which was our favourite hall.

I was surprised by the character of each college they were more distinctive than I imagined.

We would need to go back and see at least another 6 if she wants to go for it.

Be warned, there was pretty much no WiFi during the entire day. I couldn't use their app, I couldn't use Google maps.
We had to go old school and use the college map (handed out everywhere) but that didn't list every road but we found our way around with that and asking people.
I used two taxi the porter at one college helped they had a special taxi button it was amazing.

As a example it cost 7 pounds in rush hour to get from St hildas up to St John's which is close ish to the station.

It was worth every penny.

Enjoy enjoy enjoy it was a wonderful atmosphere and lots of parents chatting to each other as well

Tell us how you got on!!

St John’s is a 15 minute walk to the station. I would come back and have a look round on a non open day. The huge influx of people overwhelms wifi.

Soooo many people around Oxford today!

Glad you had a nice day in Oxford, yes it is confusing even to us you live here in Oxford. The signal for um mobile phones is not to good it's due to the high Stone building s . Very good luck to whoever is coming to our university as well a degree from oxford uni can get you a long way in life l wish ones young ones good luck