Difference between studying Law at uni and law conversion after first degree?

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Hi all,

Eldest DC is off to uni in the autumn which is prompting a fair amount of chat among her younger siblings and what they want to study!

My DS thinks he might be interested in becoming a lawyer. Aware that one can study Law at uni, or do a different degree and then do a law conversion course.

Am I right in thinking that Law graduates hope to start employment/official training in a firm following graduation (aware there would be a difference depending on if you want to become a solicitor or a barrister), but those who do law conversions study for a year, and then do the same?

A number of my friends are lawyers and did conversions, but that was a long time ago! What happens with finance for conversion courses? Is it just another year of student loans? Thanks

If you’re actually interested in Law as an academic subject you may prefer a Law degree as it affords time, over 3 years, to study a greater number of topics. IIRC the Law Conversion course only allows for the core topics required in order to proceed to the vocational stage of training.

But I won’t attempt to offer advice as it’s all too long ago, and everything’s changed recently.

Yes for the degree route it is more or less the same. You either do a Law Degree ( It has to be LLB and cover the core subjects, which when I did it included EU Law, but not sure what it covers now!) and then you can go straight into the training which is 3 years, including 2 years in practice. The non law degree route will mean one year longer doing the Law conversion course. I agree, if you are interested in Law as a subject then do the Law degree otherwise I think you get a broader range of experience and a more generalist degree if you did something else and a conversion course. I didn't become a lawyer, but I loved my Law degree. I loved the bits of it that everyone else said was boring like Administrative Law and Tort, but the vast majority of normal people find it quite dry apparently!
I'm not sure about funding, but interested as my DS also wants to work in Law in some capacity. He did 2 weeks work experience in the Crown Court, and has applied to go back in the summer because he loved it.

Both routes have their advantages

if you excel in something and are likely to get a better degree than you would in a law degree then it can be better to take your passion degree first.

You may be able to get a degree from a more desirable university in a less competitive subject than law.

a first degree in engineering or maths or comp sci or other technical area may make you desirable in specialist areas of law

I was gonna say this as well. If you like the academic side of law, study law at university.

The conversion course won't cover jurisprudence and legal philosophy for example.

I would only bother with a law degree if you think you’ll enjoy studying it for 3 years. If you want to be a solicitor, then I’d advise doing a subject you’re genuinely interested in as your undergraduate degree and then doing the conversion course. The bigger law firms will pay for your law school fees if you get a training contract with them, plus a lump sum towards living expenses, but they’re very competitive. You’d need very good A levels. Minimum 2 As and a B when I trained, maybe more like 3As now. Worth looking into

Routes into law are very different , make sure he’s looking at current advice :

https://www.thelawyerportal.com

https://www.lawcareers.net

I’m currently studying law, if they genuinely want to become a solicitor there are now 6 year courses straight from A-levels that are the best direct route and include the mandatory solicitor exams (SQE). Alternatively the LLB is actually really good and extremely interesting, covering a wide range of topics within law, after graduating they could train as a solicitor through an apprenticeship at a solicitors (hopefully including the SQE exams) or a trainee contract and fund the SQE separately. I hope that’s useful?! It’s definitely up to date as I’m in the middle of researching myself!

@Tomatotater work experience in a crown court sounds great. Can I ask what your DC did while they were there - and whether they applied direct to the court? TIA

Students generally do best studying what they love. Law is very competitive so a good degree class is important. As both routes are valid, I think DC should investigate both options in reasonable depth and then, presuming that their preferred path seems reasonable, they should follow their heart.

In my STEM subject a number of students do the law conversion and go on to practise very successfully. I think many specialise close to our field, but not exclusively.

It doesn't have to be an LLB to be a qualifying law degree, it just has to cover the core subjects. My 1990's BA Law and Politics degree was a qualifying law degree, as is my DS's current BA Law and French degree.

Law degree will cover the 7 core requirements (contract, tort, land law etc) plus a choice of modules. I’m a solicitor with a law degree. My dc is at uni studying law - we went to lots of open days there are some fantastic options I’d have loved to study.
Postgraduate law conversion you just do the core requirements.
Be wary of outdated advice. Solicitors don’t need a qualifying law degree or conversion just pass SQE 1 & 2 and 2 years qualifying work experience. Barristers still need a law degree or conversion.
Easier to pick up paralegal work which counts as qualifying work experience with a law degree.
Think finances. Some firms will fund conversion but most self fund you are looking around £25,000 fees and living expenses and an extra year.
You can get 1 year postgraduate loan of 12,000 towards fees and maintenance total. If you do the conversion as an LLM it qualifies (postgraduate conversion plus a dissertation) BUT if you use your one postgraduate loan for that you need to totally self fund SQE unless a firm pays. SQE Exam fees alone are £5000.
None law degree can be in demand eg Stem first degree and some routes well trodden to bar eg Oxbridge PPE.
Get them to go to some uni open days they do sample law lectures - some were good - getting away with murder was one.
Finally if they want to study law at a top uni they need to sit lnat yr13.

Yes he applied directly to the court. He shadowed the ushers, so he sat in some cases, went to the jury room and called in the jury, shadowed a duty solicitor for a bit. I was really surprised at how helpful they were!
@mummyinbeds Really? How annoying! I did mine in the 90s and was definitely told it had to be an LLB! I'd have liked to do Law and Politics!

I did my LLB a long time ago now but the GDL law conversion at my time was very intense. It was all the core modules with none of the "fun" bits of options you choose. People who did it described it as being very full on and challenging compared to a full law degree.

Just if it helps.

You can do law with politics as an LLB (qualifying law degree) my dc is.

SRA release stats for SQE pass by demographic, undergraduate degree classification, age etc.
They don’t break it down by who has law degree v conversion. SQE1 tests functional legal knowledge. I’d be interested to see if those with more in depth law degree or those who have done a year intense conversion before SQE fare better. SQE pass rate is only around 50%.
SQE is route to qualify as a solicitor now.

Thanks @Tomatotater. I think my DD would find that really interesting in a year or two. I had no idea you could.

They seemed quite geared up to it, and knew what all the school consent systems etc were. He was there when they had an open day too, so it may be worth looking at your local court to see if they do one. That's for everyone to attend. I had no idea they had one until he came back with a flyer!

Tbh when I was 17/18 I had no idea what I was doing, was too busy having rows with my mother who didn't want me to leave home and was trundling round the country to open days on my own as I was the first person in my family to go to University. When I think of the number of resources DS has now, I can't quite believe I did it all more or less on my own!

Technically you can now qualify as a solicitor with a non-law degree without doing the conversion, as can go from a non-law degree straight to the SQE, but it's not for the faint hearted as the SQE is proving tricky to pass, the overall pass rate is not great even amongst law grads

As far as I know, the PGDL isn’t eligible for a post grad loan. The PGDL can be included in a masters and the BPC can be upgraded to a masters, so presumably loans available for those.

I can only speak of the barrister route: it’s an expensive process but fees are actually less than when DD qualified some 8 years ago! For barristers, the Inns of Court have scholarship funding or bursary funding for the PGDL. Otherwise it’s £10,000 ish for fees and more in London. Some DC work on the days not in college. Or start volunteering ! Living at home obviously helps with living costs.

I would say always do the first degree in a subject you really really want to do. My DD did MFLs. Other friends of hers have done History, Classics, History and French, Music and probably quite a few more I’m not aware of. They have all been to very good universities and often Oxbridge.

After PGDL it’s the BPC. Barristers apply for pupillage prior to BPC or after. Depends whether they are doing a masters or other law experience before starting pupillage. If they don’t get pupillage, they have to keep trying!

The inns of court have generous scholarships for the BPC covering all the fees or a good chunk of them - but they are competitive. A scholarship is brilliant to have on the cv. I know there are also residential scholarships at the Inns to assist with living costs. The 1 year BPC will be around £15,500. DDs was more all those years ago. Too many people take it and many never get to be barristers. Keeps the costs down I guess! Pupillage awards can often be drawn down to pay for BPC too, if they are a good sum of money.

So choose the route that suits best. Not everyone is suited to a law undergrad and plenty of exceptional people don’t have it.

It’s vital to get a zinging cv. Seeking pupillage is highly competitive and it’s not for the faint hearted. There are huge numbers of deadlines all the way through the process, starting at university, so young people must be organised and dedicated. However DD loves it but it’s vital to know what area of law you are best suited to and the best route into it.

Anyone loving law should do law at university but do another degree if there’s a compelling reason to do so.

Everything changed with the introduction of the SQE. I don’t think a law conversion course (prev. GDL) really exists any more. Instead of the LPC students take the SQE exams and I think you can do this after completing any old degree.

Previously student finance wasn’t available for GDL/LPC courses so students either self funded, had it funded by a law firm or took out a business loan. I’m not sure how it works now.

My advice as someone who always knew they wanted to be a lawyer is to just go for it with the law degree. If you know you want to be a lawyer, why waste time doing something else? General legal knowledge will be better and if it turns out they don’t like it, they can go into something else like 50% of law students (well that was the stat for my cohort who graduated in 2015). Law degrees are generally well respected and have lots of transferable skills.

Yes to make it postgraduate funding eligible they just package the PGDL with a dissertation to make it a 12 months masters and SFE eligible. It’s also offered just as a diploma if you prefer.
Postgraduate loan is only 12,000 though so need to consider how you’ll fund it if you don’t manage to secure funding from a firm/scholarship.

Law conversion is still available (uni of law, BPP, Nottingham Trent etc) as barristers without a law degree need it and some firms are still requiring a law qualification not just SQE.
I do agree if they know they are aiming for law career it makes sense to study law degree. It’s a well regarded academic degree suitable for lots of careers.

@Cakeandusername Have to say DD never wanted undergrad law. Lots of very able people still don’t. I’m not sure how many barristers are doing masters instead of PGDL. However that’s something to check up on if dc doesn’t do a law degree. My DD couldn’t imagine life without MFLs at 18!

Thanks so much for all the extremely helpful advice and info! I must admit just briefly reading through responses, I am possibly even more confused than before about the possible pathways/exams etc 😅 - but will take time to read properly and absorb. Thanks again.