Difference between studying Law at uni and law conversion after first degree?

[possiblelime]

Hi all,

Eldest DC is off to uni in the autumn which is prompting a fair amount of chat among her younger siblings and what they want to study!

My DS thinks he might be interested in becoming a lawyer. Aware that one can study Law at uni, or do a different degree and then do a law conversion course.

Am I right in thinking that Law graduates hope to start employment/official training in a firm following graduation (aware there would be a difference depending on if you want to become a solicitor or a barrister), but those who do law conversions study for a year, and then do the same?

A number of my friends are lawyers and did conversions, but that was a long time ago! What happens with finance for conversion courses? Is it just another year of student loans? Thanks

I did my law conversion course in 2005 so I am well out of the loop now, but I echo other's advice that whatever the undergraduate degree is, it should be something that they enjoy, rather than just doing it because of the ultimate goal of being in law.

Maybe it's changed but I never felt that being a non-law graduate put me at a disadvantage.. quite the opposite, the employers seem to want a variety of background experience as it helps with certain areas of law. My most 'successful' law school friend (in terms of a desirable training contract) did Chemistry as her undergraduate degree.

The one memory I do have on the Legal Practice Course, which the law graduates and non-law graduates both had to do, is that there were a fair few who had decided they wanted to be solicitors at aged 17 and therefore done Law at undergraduate level etc, who by this stage were starting to become jaded and not too sure they still wanted to be solicitors, but by this stage the 'sunk costs' felt too great to change direction.

So I would say if there's an undergraduate course that appeals to them other than law, it's certainly worth considering that. Trying to get some legal work experience would probably stand them in greater stead.

@possiblelime The Bar Standards Board sets it out clearly what Barristers have to do. The only decision is the GDL with or without the Masters qualification for non law degree holders. Plus ignore the 2:2. No one gets a job now with a 2:2. Degree in law it’s straight to the barristers training course unless dc does a masters first or work.

BPP university sets out a readable explanation of the qualifying route for solicitors. Other resources are available. When dc get into it, pathways become much clearer. Both careers are mostly train first, get the job afterwards. Some get the job first and get training paid. This is the most competitive route. Non law and law both apply for the same jobs but ultimately non law grads must convert to law and who pays!

I would also try and attend open days at the Inns of Court to introduce what a barrister does and how to go about training. It’s also important that the legal profession has access to bright minds and this is not always evidenced by a law degree. There are many other academic degrees that give substance and background to a successful lawyer.

The most important thing is to do an academic subject at university, preferably get a first, and make sure it’s a very strong top 10- 20 university or elite. The overall goal is to get a job so being the absolute best you can matters as well as personality and other personal attributes.

The solicitors training has recently changed to SQE so it will take a few years to settle down.
Some firms are still doing it old school way of law degree/conversion then postgraduate SQE then on the job training. Some are doing via postgraduate apprenticeship so do SQE while getting the on the job training. Govt have indicated the funding for this type of apprenticeship may be abolished however to throw a spanner in works.
I’ve got 3 in my team all qualifying different ways it’s a minefield.
Best advice is do law or a well regarded academic degree at a very high ranking uni and then take it from there.
Do be careful of outdated advice as lots of solicitors and barristers aren’t aware of recent changes.

The law schools and inns of court know the time of day. Agree the right advice matters but it can be found and maybe solicitor training needs to be easier to navigate? Too many routes is confusing. The Law Society has good info for solicitors. The bar is more understandable and easy enough to navigate the route.

Personal choice but I did a law degree and very glad I did. I have had a varied career and genuinely use what I learnt on my degree on a weekly basis. No way could have covered all that in a year.

Always baffles me when people say law is “boring” why do you want to be a solicitor then? Doing joint honours law and another subject is a good halfway house that’s what I did and Dd is doing too,

If DS wants to be a Solicitor, have a look at Solicitor Apprenticeships. I work for a University that runs the course. It’s a 6 year course whilst working in a firm, all training and SQE costs are funded, so £0 student debt whilst earning a wage. The apprentices come out of the course with SO much valuable practical experience, much more ready for qualification than I was when I qualified through the traditional route in 2017. However as a PP has said, SQE is very difficult and there are questions about the future of funding for Level 7 apprenticeships (current speculation is that it will remain available for under 21s, but no confirmation yet).

Barrister numbers are low compared to Solicitors profession 18,000 v 220,000 so it makes sense there’s more options in how solicitors qualify.
Route to qualify as a solicitor is clear it’s any degree plus pass SQE1 & 2 and 2 years qualifying work experience (eg paralegal or as a trainee)
But there’s multiple ways you can do this.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is if they are hardworking and very academic and know solicitor profession is for them as a teen then look into solicitor apprenticeship from 18. They are ultra competitive but even top firms inc magic circle offer them. Bar haven’t yet launched their apprenticeships but it’s being discussed.
My dc is doing a law with another subject degree not straight law as keeps options open.

Sorry cross posted @popplego! My colleague’s teen is qualifying via solicitor apprenticeship. She does 4 days working and 1 day at a local university.

Yep that’s how ours works too, 1 day per week studying and 4 days at work, but they’re paid for 5 days with it being an apprenticeship it’s demanding but worthwhile for those who definitely want to be Solicitors.

@Cakeandusername I think the “multiple ways” is where the confusion lies. People struggle to know what’s best.

@TheaBrandt1 Who said it’s boring? Haven’t seen that.

How many solicitor apprenticeships are there? Even the magic circle have hardly any? Will they be phased out by the time this dc is applying? I’m not surprised the Bar is not responding very quickly. They are hardly going to have a mechanism for training in chambers to that degree and they are all self employed! CPS? Possible but the majority of high flyers don’t go there and Starmer didn’t start there.

Lots of people on these threads say they don’t want do a law degree because it’s “boring” which I find quite strange if you are serious about a career in law!

I loved my LLB absolutely loved it. Some of the happiest years of my life those 3 years. So interesting and absorbing and great bunch of people on my course met so many diverse people and lots of international students.

I did qualify as a solicitor which I found very boring and no longer do it but loved my law degree and at the time, the year at the College of Law.

LLBs are also great degrees for non- legal careers too as the skills of advocacy and analysis of arguments inter alia, are relevant skills for many walks of life.

Also the LLB offers the student the ability to study so many areas of law which enables the student to decide the area of law they are most like to enjoy in practice.

@TheaBrandt1 Not this thread though. I think the advice has been measured, helpful and accurate.

Yes paid for 5 days.
The postgraduate apprenticeship works same way. So one of my team had a law degree and did SQE1&2 while working as a paralegal and getting paid - 4 days with us and one at a local uni, paid 5 days and all fees inc exam fees funded by apprenticeship, he also had option to do extra dissertation and got his LLM.

Bar apprenticeships have been approved but none actually offered yet.
www.legalcheek.com/2024/12/bsb-approves-barrister-apprenticeships-for-school-leavers/amp/

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/solicitor-apprenticeship-numbers-promising-says-education-minister/5118781.article#:~:text=According%20to%20figures%20provided%20by,the%20level%20three%20paralegal%20apprenticeship.
Legal cheek has a list of the big firms offering apprenticeships from 18 but it’s literally a handful at each firm.

@Cakeandusername Yes. It’s a handful as I said.

IME most top law firms prefer you NOT to have a law degree

They were taking around 50/50. Not sure what stats are now.

Thanks so much again for all the advice. I need to read and absorb all the extensive advice but two quick questions (and apologies if it’s already been covered here)

• So if you do a first degree (3 years) and then do a law conversion course (1 year), it is possible to get a postgrad loan for the law conversion? (We have 3 dcs and having just been through all the financial implications with eldest going to uni in autumn, it would be good to think about. I’m wondering if 2nd DC could do a first degree but then live at home for law conversion…we are in London so hopefully that’s a fairly straightforward option).

-How might an English Literature first degree be viewed? Pretty much all the lawyers I know did History, PPE or languages before doing the conversion. One of DDs mates plans to do biochemistry degree first and then a conversion- obviously that opens a lot of doors with pharmaceutical law etc.

@possiblelime you get the post grad loan if the GDL is upgraded to include a masters. Look at Uni of Law and BPP GDL/Masters courses and you will see what I mean. The loan might be a bit short for the fees but dc living at home saves a packet. London is also good for networking and cv.

Nothing wrong with Eng Lit. Lots of reading and interpretation of what’s being read. However make sure this degree is at a very good university. A traditional degree is better in my view. Also when at university dc might be able to join in with some law/debating
activities and definitely go to law careers fairs. Check the universities that have them. If not taking law it’s more challenging to get into the groove and get info and meet application deadlines. And there are lots!

You've missed out LPC/BPC completely, it's definitely not undergrad and straight into training.

Tbh I have never met a lawyer (I'm a barrister) who I'm aware did English lit as a first degree. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it's unusual in my area. Lots of history, classics, languages, sciences, ppe. And of course law.

@FrodoBiggins solicitor route is now undergrad to training, the LPC has been phased out and replaced with SQE which is generally done same time as being in a law firm straight from undergrad