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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

DD doesn't have a uni Term 3

318 replies

Globules · 22/04/2025 19:50

Just that really.

She chose modules this year, her first year, that all completed in terms 1 & 2.

She has no lectures and no assignments, nothing, until October 2025.

£9250 academic fees, plus 39 week let fees.

Surely this can't be considered ok?!

OP posts:
LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 10:05

lostinthesunshine · 24/04/2025 23:49

It's just a pity that some posters insist those of us with knowledge must be wrong, stupid, lazy, overpaid, no good at our jobs etc etc etc. There is a lot that some posters could learn. But they don't want to.

Thats awful. You should report those posts.

I would, but I can’t seem to see them.

Not so much in this thread, but there are several posters who participate regularly in threads like this (The universities going bust threads for example) who are also on this thread. And they say pretty much these things. According to some (on no evidence that they'e offered) universities are bloated, staff are too lazy to teach like school teachers, and research is an indulgence.

I'd have thought parents would value insights from experienced academics, but apparently not.

Azandme · 25/04/2025 10:08

Globules · 22/04/2025 20:08

My uni experience in the 90s was 3 x 10 terms. Term 3 always finished around 25th June.

Everyone on campus had lectures/exams/assignments in every term.

Her experience is completely foreign to me. Thanks to those of you sharing your more recent experiences.

I had two semesters, done by May in the 90s.

A two semester model is common, and has been for a long time. Trimesters less so, but still plenty use them. The uni I work at has recently changed from the more traditional semester to trimester to align with schools.

She should use this time reading for next year.

Expletive · 25/04/2025 10:51

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 09:54

All (most?) employers aren’t subject blind. The chance of getting a job as a biochemist or civil engineer if your only degree is in MFL is virtually nil.

Well of course. That's not a sensible argument, and seems to [wilfully?] misconstrue the point about generalist degrees and graduate employment.

And it's fairly clear that there are STEMM generalist degrees as well as generalist Humanities & arts degrees. For example, Biology, Physics, Mathematics ...

Engineering was specifically mentioned.

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 12:21

I think we can all agree that humanties degrees are cheaper to deliver than STEM degrees. (Please?)

Not necessarily. MFL need language labs. Drama/Theatre need quite large studio spaces; Music needs rehearsal studios and practice rooms; Fine Arts needs studios. Even outside the Conservatoires & specialist vocational training colleges, the arts subjects (such as music, drama, art) all employ extra staff with professional expertise, direct from industry, and for safety apart from anything else, need to teach in smaller groups. You can't have 30 students running around in one space "being trees" (joke) in a theatre practical class! Most universities which offer music offer one to one tuition in the student's main instrument. Fine Arts degrees offer individual studio space particularly to Final Year students, plus there's some pretty big/expensive kit if you're treaching ceramics, for example.

And even the "cheap" Humanities subjects such as English need a big investment in Library resources, and ditto History. Some journal subscriptions and electronic text packages cost hundreds of thousands per year.

Pre- the Browne report and the removal of government funding for undergraduates, to be replaced by the tuition fee, the funding was generally in 3 bands. Band A was for full laboratory subjects eg Engineering. Band C was standard "cheap" degrees in Humanities, Social Sciences, and some sciences. However, several Arts & Humanities disciplines received what was called Band B funding for part laboratory subjects, such as MFL, Music, Drama, Film Studies, in recognition of the extra capital and ongoing expense of these degrees in terms of space resource, for example.

And not all STEM subjects received the Band A funding for full laboratory subjects.

Universities are complex ecologies, and can't be managed with single, pretty crude policies.

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 12:22

Expletive · 25/04/2025 10:51

Engineering was specifically mentioned.

Edited

I'd argue that was a specious comparison, and counter to common sense - not a serious argument.

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 14:22

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 10:02

No. Only Medicine I think

DD gets an NHS bursary of £6k (radiography)

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 14:26

She should use this time reading for next year.

@Azandme I have stated this twice on this thread. DD had no idea exactly what her second and third year topics were going to cover. She knew that she was going to do crtain modules - immunology, anatomy, pharmacy etc, but not exactly what the topics were (biomedical sciences).

Do students doing humanities degrees know exactly what is upcoming?

worstofbothworlds · 25/04/2025 14:26

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 10:05

Not so much in this thread, but there are several posters who participate regularly in threads like this (The universities going bust threads for example) who are also on this thread. And they say pretty much these things. According to some (on no evidence that they'e offered) universities are bloated, staff are too lazy to teach like school teachers, and research is an indulgence.

I'd have thought parents would value insights from experienced academics, but apparently not.

I think they'd be great University heads of department, don't you?

worstofbothworlds · 25/04/2025 14:30

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 14:26

She should use this time reading for next year.

@Azandme I have stated this twice on this thread. DD had no idea exactly what her second and third year topics were going to cover. She knew that she was going to do crtain modules - immunology, anatomy, pharmacy etc, but not exactly what the topics were (biomedical sciences).

Do students doing humanities degrees know exactly what is upcoming?

Given that later year modules build on earlier years, I'd be ecstatic if any of my students came into my third year lectures having revised their earlier topics. Especially practical techniques. It's like teaching a room full of moles who've never seen the sun and don't know what to make of it.

CamillaMacauley · 25/04/2025 14:50

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 14:22

DD gets an NHS bursary of £6k (radiography)

Yes, that’s for the student. I think the poster was asking do the govt give the actual university more money per student for the fact they run more expensive courses.

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 15:01

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 14:22

DD gets an NHS bursary of £6k (radiography)

That's to the individual student.

I understood the question to be asking about Government funding to universities for covering a group of students on specific courses.

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 15:05

Do students doing humanities degrees know exactly what is upcoming?

Yes indeed.

One of my degrees is in English literature. I used the summer term and the summer to read the very long novels that were set on the English lit part of my degree - I specialised in 18th and 19th century literature and we studied on average, a long novel, a couple of plays and a poet, each week of term over 3 terms. I needed to get them all read before term started, otherwise I'd have been hopelessly lost! Then there was the other half of my degree ...

(I don't think students read half as much today ... which is part of the problem)

LittleBigHead · 25/04/2025 15:10

worstofbothworlds · 25/04/2025 14:26

I think they'd be great University heads of department, don't you?

ha ha ha! I'd love to see my colleagues try to stay calm and polite in the face of some stuff that people theorise here about how to run the UK HE system. And my colleagues are lovely - kind, nurturing and not at all combative.

boys3 · 25/04/2025 15:22

Is that part of the problem @LittleBigHead ? With Education a devolved matter are there four HE systems within the UK. Or are there at least some elements at a UK level still?

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 25/04/2025 15:36

DD had no idea exactly what her second and third year topics were going to cover.

If she had asked I'm pretty sure staff would have given her a reading list.

I love it when my students reach out to ask for recommended reading so they can prepare in advance.

TizerorFizz · 25/04/2025 16:11

@RampantIvyAs far as I’m aware, DD had core topics and options. The options are finalized quite late sometimes but the core doesn’t change much. So getting ahead in the core, if you can, is possible but not always. Depends how much teaching is needed.

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 18:34

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 25/04/2025 15:36

DD had no idea exactly what her second and third year topics were going to cover.

If she had asked I'm pretty sure staff would have given her a reading list.

I love it when my students reach out to ask for recommended reading so they can prepare in advance.

DD never got to know or talk to any of the staff on her course. They had a different lecturer for each topic, some of whom only delivered one lecture. The students never managed to build up a rapport with any of the staff except for her dissertation tutor. It was a large cohort (370) and the staff were very hands off and unapproachable.

When DD needed a reference her "personal tutor" didn't even know who she was as she had only spoken to DD once (DD changed her personal tutor because the first one was dreadful and didn't turn up for meetings).

It won't have helped that lockdown started when she was 6 months into her degree, so the rest of her first year and all of her second year was online only except for some very tightly controlled lab practicals.

The masters she is on is completely different. The cohort is much smaller and DD often chats to the staff delivering the course, including the head of department.

So, in answer to your question @HighLadyofTheNightCourt DD wouldn't have known who to approach.

worstofbothworlds · 25/04/2025 19:23

I have academic tutees that I know by name and all about their hobbies and study habits because they turn up to tutorials and those that I wouldn't know from Adam or Eve because they have never once come.
We don't quite have that cohort size but we do have a mix of staff on many modules. But we recently were told to send an "attendance flag" to anyone attending less than 70% of their classes only we had to reduce it to less than 50% or it would have been everyone basically.
I know the students best who are my dissertation students or who volunteer in my lab but I also know those who speak up in labs or lectures, those who ask questions, or corner me after class to tell me something, it is a two way street.

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 19:31

worstofbothworlds · 25/04/2025 19:23

I have academic tutees that I know by name and all about their hobbies and study habits because they turn up to tutorials and those that I wouldn't know from Adam or Eve because they have never once come.
We don't quite have that cohort size but we do have a mix of staff on many modules. But we recently were told to send an "attendance flag" to anyone attending less than 70% of their classes only we had to reduce it to less than 50% or it would have been everyone basically.
I know the students best who are my dissertation students or who volunteer in my lab but I also know those who speak up in labs or lectures, those who ask questions, or corner me after class to tell me something, it is a two way street.

DD attended all of the lectures and seminars that she could (lockdown permitting), but none of the students knew any of the staff. I knew it wouldn't be like school, but I didn't know the staff would be so hands off.

Azandme · 25/04/2025 20:12

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 14:26

She should use this time reading for next year.

@Azandme I have stated this twice on this thread. DD had no idea exactly what her second and third year topics were going to cover. She knew that she was going to do crtain modules - immunology, anatomy, pharmacy etc, but not exactly what the topics were (biomedical sciences).

Do students doing humanities degrees know exactly what is upcoming?

She knew the general content - and that's what students should read around. "Principles of" type stuff.

So if she knew Immunology was coming - read around it. Anatomy - same. Pharmacy - research.

If a student can't read around subjects without specific direction, that's an issue. If they are not interested in broader study in their chosen area, rather than waiting for specifics, that's also a concern.

Many HE students seem to want spoon feeding a la school, but that isn't what HE is. It's about exploring for yourself. Students should possess the ability and drive to do some background reading without a lecturer saying, "THIS book, THAT journal article."

You mention humanities students as though it's somehow different - when it comes to reading around your chosen subject, it's really not.

Noone becomes an expert by just reading the bare minimum on the reading list, or by only looking at the subject within the time limits of a module.

RampantIvy · 25/04/2025 20:49

Azandme · 25/04/2025 20:12

She knew the general content - and that's what students should read around. "Principles of" type stuff.

So if she knew Immunology was coming - read around it. Anatomy - same. Pharmacy - research.

If a student can't read around subjects without specific direction, that's an issue. If they are not interested in broader study in their chosen area, rather than waiting for specifics, that's also a concern.

Many HE students seem to want spoon feeding a la school, but that isn't what HE is. It's about exploring for yourself. Students should possess the ability and drive to do some background reading without a lecturer saying, "THIS book, THAT journal article."

You mention humanities students as though it's somehow different - when it comes to reading around your chosen subject, it's really not.

Noone becomes an expert by just reading the bare minimum on the reading list, or by only looking at the subject within the time limits of a module.

Edited

I have just asked DD about this. She said the topics and modules were often changed around last minute so the students would get a series of lectures that they weren't expecting. Or they would open a lecture about anatomy to find it was pharmacy.

DD did read around her subject but not knowing what was upcoming was a bit of an issue, so she would read up about the topic in question, but not always beforehand.

As I said, they often had so many different lecturers who would just deliver one lecture and were never seen again that it was impossible to know who to reach out to. You clearly had a different experience so it must come as quite a revelation to you that not all universities and courses are the same.

She graduated with a good first, but as you weren't a student with her during lockdown I would appreciate less criticism about something you couldn't possibly know about.

And she wasn't expecting to be spoonfed Hmm

TizerorFizz · 26/04/2025 09:20

@RampantIvy Is this more of an issue with stem? I think there’s greater consistency in humanities because no one else can teach what that lecturer has researched as an individual. So if you choose a module few others choose, you do get a rapport with the lecturer. Less so with core if it’s broad and several can teach it.

RampantIvy · 26/04/2025 12:10

TizerorFizz · 26/04/2025 09:20

@RampantIvy Is this more of an issue with stem? I think there’s greater consistency in humanities because no one else can teach what that lecturer has researched as an individual. So if you choose a module few others choose, you do get a rapport with the lecturer. Less so with core if it’s broad and several can teach it.

I'm inclined to think you might be correct. DD said they had a lot of lecturers that only delivered one lecture and were never seen again.

Her masters is completely different. It is taught differently and there is a lot of interaction between the students and small handful of teaching staff. I'm sure this is one of the reasons DD is enjoying it so much.

TizerorFizz · 26/04/2025 19:10

@RampantIvyI think students have a better rapport with any teacher/lecturer in a small group. It’s why Oxbridge is so successful.

Needmoresleep · 27/04/2025 06:50

DSs experience was of huge compulsory lectures in the first year (Econ 101 at LSE) as students acquired key knowledge and more technical subjects in Yr 2 still with fairly large numbers. Yr 3 was the chance to use that knowledge with a large range of courses sometimes in surprisingly small groups, often shared with Masters students, and often taught by genuine experts in their field. (Not all of whom were great teachers😊.)

Classes were odd in that DS had come from an academic private school where in sixth form questions were encouraged. Other students, including those from Asia, were less used to student participation so sat in silence. DS started to use office hours to clarify things he did not fully understand, but he was about the only one. It worked to his advantage as academics got to know him and actively supported him when he came to apply for a PhD.

DD, who took the third year of an engineering degree as an intercalation from her medicine degree, similarly enjoyed quite specialist options taught by experts with a mix of UG and Masters students. Smaller labs so they did not have access during lockdown but staff were supportive. The only RampantIvy-type problem was that the person leading one course was on sabbatical and the person drafted in was insufficiently familiar with the content. Someone who had taken the course the year before kindly came to the rescue of the small number of floundering medics and volunteered to give them a couple of tutorial sessions. The course leadership was generally very good so without lockdown this might have been addressed earlier.

A friend once shared that her first year state-school educated daughter was struggling with writing University-level academic essays. When I suggested she use office hours, my friend said that the DD would see this as akin to knocking on the school staff room door at lunchtime, something she would never dare to do. She was eventually persuaded that most academics are only too happy to see bright engaged students during office hours. The DD went on to get a first then a Masters and a PhD.

On-line recorded lectures were a real boon to dyslexic DD, who was not good at note taking, and especially on a degree which involved placements. Much easier to rewatch a lecture than to read a book. But by then she was expert in how she learned and so had refined her study skills to include paying full attention in class and using her strong memory rather than rely on last minute cramming. (Binge watching a whole course a few days before an exam, possibly as double speed, was a thing...and not advised.) On line lectures were not available when DS was an undergraduate, so instead for more technical lectures he would prepare in advance and then go back over the lecture content after the lecture. He too would have enjoyed the chance to rewatch lectures.

Universities do not get everything right, and different courses will be best taught (and examined) in different ways. I wonder to what extent the problem is around student expectation. University is not school. As in the workplace where bosses prefer staff to come to them with a proposed solution as well as a problem, University is about taking ownership of your learning. Degree classification may get you a job, but it is the self-starting, problem solving, analytical or technical skills that you gain at University that will help you progress.

(FWIW dyslexic DD chose not to apply to Oxbridge. The idea of having to write regular essays was a complete turn off. Different students will thrive in different environments. The onus should be on them to choose the approach that suits them.)

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