Law at Oxbridge

[JemmaAndHar]

Inspired by another thread, how can we support ds (year 10) to have a chance at getting a place at oxbridge? He's in top sets at an ordinary state comprehensive and on track for very good GCSEs. Looking to do Maths, History and either Philosophy or Further Maths for A-Levels or Politics. He has a passion for reading but doesn't read much non fiction. He's interested in history, philosophy, debating, law but not passionate or single minded about any of these. There is no debating club at his school.

We are not an Oxbridge family either. I've read on MN that candidates at interview are selected for their comprehensive knowledge and passion for the subject. Are any 17/8 year olds really passionate about the law? If they are, ds will probably not have a chance as he's interested in law but doesn't e.g. submerge himself in books related to law, if this is what's needed?

He's interested in all his prospective A-levels but not single minded. He's very social and lives for sports, especially rugby. He'd probably do quite well in the LNAT as he is academic and good at revising and memorising but not sure about the interview stage. Seeing how competitive Oxbridge is, maybe he's too 'ordinary' to be considered. What steps could he take now to be in the best possible place to apply for Law? Shall we get a subscription to magazines, newspapers or similar? Which ones? His knowledge of current affairs isn't amazing at the moment. I hope this post doesn't sound completely dumb, I admit I feel very much not in the know.

Also, which other Law schools would you recommend as possible alternatives? Any thoughts and tips would be so appreciated.

@Calliopespa. As the universities only have GCSE results, they will wonder if a 7 in History or English will result in A or better at A level. It’s not ideal when many candidates will have high grades in relevant GCSE subjects. Cambridge lists the relevant subjects so it’s best to stick to them regarding what results are best. If a 7 at History results in a B at A level, there’s a problem and LNAT won’t matter. Even if you get a place you will be out on results day. The subjects to consider most important at GCSE are History, MFLs, English, maths - these are the key subjects for 2 or more A levels, according to Cambridge .

No agreed: less than ideal is never ideal.

I think my point was slightly different, namely that being “ ideal” on paper is not a guarantee, and likewise plenty who have a less than “ ideal “ profile will succeed.

There are swings, roundabouts and unknowns in the mix.

He should give it his best shot.

It’s great to have a goal, but I’d advise against prioritising Oxbridge as “the goal”. I went to Cambridge (not a law degree) and became a lawyer. I had many friends at school who got incredible A level results and didn’t get Oxbridge offers. Some were so attached to that goal that they were genuinely devastated and even now (we’re nearly 50) have a chip on their shoulders about it.

You can become a very successful lawyer without either a law degree or an Oxbridge degree. Student life at Oxford and Cambridge is very pressured because of the extremely short terms. The supervision style of teaching doesn’t suit everyone. I would take a broader view at this early stage and think about the balance between the “uni experience” as well as future career goals.

This is extremely wise advice too.

Also, many (maybe even most?) law firms these days have blind recruitment which includes provision for any factors which may have impacted upon the candidate’s results. I’ve recently been involved in selecting vac schemers (most firms recruit for training contracts directly from their vac schemers cohorts - vac schemes are usually 2 weeks done in the summer of second year of uni). So if you went to private school and then Oxford or Cambridge and did well, that’s great but someone who came from a lower socio-economic background and maybe got less good grades but shows real focus on law and our firm can score equally well or better.

In my selections, many candidates who had “better” CVs did not get an interview while those who looked “less good on paper” did. It’s not scientific but relevant work experience, and genuine focus on the specifics of the firm you’re applying to (as opposed to “I’ve got a first from Oxford so you should be grateful to have me” vibes) stand out.

Sorry, I'm butting in again for your advice! What if they haven't taken History GCSE but taken Classics and RE? Will that be detrimental? Should they definitely take History over Classics A Level?

I’ve no doubt my DD was less good on paper academically for her job but you can make up for that. The issue with Oxbridge is that law is very competitive with 1/9 or 1/10 applicants getting in. The less good find it hugely difficult to make up ground. Out of 2000 applicants how many are taken with less than a great GCSE profile or very high LNAT scores? My hunch is hardly any. However dc can do well elsewhere and the cv matters as I’ve said before. Agree that making Oxbridge the sole focus is wrong.

Agree 💯that making Oxbridge the sole focus is wrong
pp have mentioned durham, may I kindly ask for additional recommendations?

Aside from the vac scheme, which happens when they already read Law, what other part-time jobs or volunteering opportunities would be beneficial and help a rounded CV as well as broadening a young person's horizon? Around here, it's not possible to volunteer with, e.g. the Citizens Advice Bureau until after finishing school, as their volunteer roles are typically during the week and they require volunteers to be 18 or older.

@JemmaAndHar. Other respected universities are the ones who also use LNAT. These are Bristol, Durham, LSE, KCL, UCL, SOAS and Glasgow. I’d probably discount Glasgow but they might do English law: haven’t looked. You don’t want Scottish law if DS practices in England or Wales and you don’t want 4 years ideally. The majority of the others are in London but SOAS and LSE are not going to suit everyone for various reasons. London doesn’t suit everyone either so Bristol and Durham are very popular and excellent choices. If he likes London, UCL and KCL should be considered.

After the LNAT unis, you need to think where DS might work. You then look at other regional universities: Manchester is a big supplier of law grads as well as Birmingham, Nottingham and plenty of others like York and Sheffield but often grads work more locally. Not so much in London.

The slight problem is with London firms who tend to employ far more Oxbridge grads than in the regions. However no top 20 uni should be ruled out as many firms won’t look at that info. What they will all do is have very challenging recruitment tests but Oxbridge still comes out top in London. For regional jobs, the regional unis supply the grads. Don’t forget many of these universities have the Oxbridge applicants who didn’t get in (especially Durham and Bristol) and plenty of them do get very good jobs too. Getting a job is a whole new ballgame though and many law grads don’t become solicitors or barristers.

If DS wants to be a barrister, consider Durham and Bristol after Oxbridge and a 4th and 5th with no LNAT - but aim as high as possible.