Law at Oxbridge

[JemmaAndHar]

Inspired by another thread, how can we support ds (year 10) to have a chance at getting a place at oxbridge? He's in top sets at an ordinary state comprehensive and on track for very good GCSEs. Looking to do Maths, History and either Philosophy or Further Maths for A-Levels or Politics. He has a passion for reading but doesn't read much non fiction. He's interested in history, philosophy, debating, law but not passionate or single minded about any of these. There is no debating club at his school.

We are not an Oxbridge family either. I've read on MN that candidates at interview are selected for their comprehensive knowledge and passion for the subject. Are any 17/8 year olds really passionate about the law? If they are, ds will probably not have a chance as he's interested in law but doesn't e.g. submerge himself in books related to law, if this is what's needed?

He's interested in all his prospective A-levels but not single minded. He's very social and lives for sports, especially rugby. He'd probably do quite well in the LNAT as he is academic and good at revising and memorising but not sure about the interview stage. Seeing how competitive Oxbridge is, maybe he's too 'ordinary' to be considered. What steps could he take now to be in the best possible place to apply for Law? Shall we get a subscription to magazines, newspapers or similar? Which ones? His knowledge of current affairs isn't amazing at the moment. I hope this post doesn't sound completely dumb, I admit I feel very much not in the know.

Also, which other Law schools would you recommend as possible alternatives? Any thoughts and tips would be so appreciated.

Yes the first hurdle is getting it. But once in the interview those “rankings” don’t dictate.

Yes the first hurdle is getting it. But once in the interview those “rankings” don’t dictate.

It’s all up for grabs again.

Oxford say this about decisions. It doesn’t appear to be just interview. I would guess a stellar interview could lift you up the list but for many it still means you are bouncing near the bottom. Not sure it’s entirely up for grabs because the mark successful applicants have for LNAT goes upwards by quite a bit!

The OP had posted asking advice about what she had heard about candidates at interview, which I guess is why people are directing their answers to that. But yes, technically you cannot get a place if you do not get to interview.

Grades are typically looked at before the interview process.

I was politely trying to explain to the OP that it’s putting the cart before the horse. If less than 3/10 applicants get an interview it’s best to concentrate on getting an interview in the first instance. If the op doesn’t know about LNAT, that’s quite a problem. However I do take your point @Calliopespa

I'm interested in learning about the entire application process not just the interview. What makes a strong Law personal statement?

Grammar and spelling mistakes really stick out, so it’s helpful to have it proof read by a fresh pair of eyes.

It’s good to reference the attractions of the course - such as enjoying the challenge of seeing both sides of an argument. It’s fine to note if a particular specialism appeals, but bear in mind you are expected to be at the beginning of your law journey so don’t lecture! And don’t waste words on quotes; it’s a chance to give an authentic account of yourself. A pompous mini treatise on the law is not what they are looking for, so again, no secret tricks are really needed.

Can the knowledgeable on the thread clarify the order of the application process. Obviously the UCAS form and personal statement are the first part, but can you confirm the LNAT is second and then the interview? Or is it the other way round for Law? And do all Unis (not just Oxbridge) have LNAT and interview requirements and in the same order?

LNAT is before interview. They have the LNAT results and that helps shortlist for interview. Not many unis use LNAT. Only the most competitive few.

These are from the Oxford web site. Lots of advice on their web site and I assume Cambridge is the same.

Thanks @TizerorFizz! I am going to go through this thread and make some notes as there is a lot of info here.

First thing I'll do is find out why DS wants to do Law. I'll see if I get a well reasoned answer!

The first step to securing an interview is to achieve above average GCSEs for cohort.

That might not override a very low LNAT score though. Most dc applying for law at elite universities will have a hatful of high grade GCSEs. I think a good spread of GCSEs also helps. Not one dimensional and definitely as many as possible that lead to 2 of the A levels preferred by Cambridge.

@FiveFoxes. Look at the videos and details on the Oxford web site and look at the A level guidance posted by Cambridge. It’s a case of getting DS into the best position he can to get an interview.

I think it always helps to be articulate and able to think on your feet. DD did drama GCSE. Helps a lot with confidence and public speaking. So making sure he can speak clearly and is able to advocate his thoughts in an articulate way is important. Confidence is so important.

One of the major issues initially is showing interest in the subject and this takes a bit of time to build up. Eg The Times has legal pages every Thursday. He can go and sit in a court - except the family court. You have had great advice on other ways. Is he more interested in being a solicitor? DS must look at the content of the courses. They are heavy with lots of reading. Fast pace and he will be with super bright people. There are plenty of lawyers who didn’t go to Oxbridge though so please don’t think that’s the only route to success.

What is above average? All 9s or can there be an occasional 8 or 7 ?

@JemmaAndHar Above whatever is the average for his particular school.

It’s about a package. If you show huge potential with the more relevant skills in the LNAT and interview, it isn’t going to sink your application if you had a 7 in DT.

At the end of the day, the reason for those extra layers in the process is because the school qualifications don’t really go far enough in demonstrating who are the ideal candidates. That’s why they bother with those parts of the process. If they thought GCSEs and A levels gave a full picture there would be a huge reduction in workload. Interviews have had a bad reputation over the years but they are really just an attempt to get behind and see the real candidate.

It could be an advantage that he is at a not very high achieving school? Do they compare the applicants' GCSE results with their cohort average? That must take up a lot of time, but is really positive. Are private and grammar school applicants less likely to be invited for an interview (all grades being equal) as their cohort will have a higher average?

Also two candidates with identical school results can perform as chalk and cheese, night and day at interview.

@JemmaAndHar

Only around 1200 dc get all grade 9. Please don’t think all 2000 applicants for law at Oxford and presumably similar at Cambridge have all 9s. However it’s fairly usual to see the intake have mostly 8s and 9s. These are academic dc. They will have done well even in less good schools. I agree a 7 in DT doesn’t matter but in English lit it isn’t so great for law. So aiming high must be the requirement.

They are working towards that. The most recent figures I have seen demonstrate that some of the more competitive schools are still getting high levels of success but there can be many reasons for that. Some very talented children get scholarships to these sorts of schools. But yes, broadly speaking, you are correct that you have to be even stronger on paper if coming from a certain type of school.

I agree with this. There are so many applicants that they couldn’t interview them all. That’s why results figure in that first cut.

Once through the first cut, they try to get behind that.

And even a 7 in English or history type papers doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t perform brilliantly at the LNAT and interview. Law is one of the subjects that this is truest for as the candidates haven’t yet been tested in their legal analysis. English is closer than DT but it still isn’t law!

I think there’s evidence that state grammar schools do provide a lot of successful candidates. Oxford just give state/private split but I believe state grammars are over represented and some academic comps that are well known.

Bristol lists the schools where they give contextual offers. Is DSs school on their list. If so, Bristol should be high on his list.

I am really grateful for all the information shared on this thread, it's really interesting and helpful.

The main takeaway op is it’s always worth his best shot.

Plenty of candidates with straight 9s and A stars don’t get offers; plenty with markedly less than that do. Obviously the latter have to make it up elsewhere, and the overwhelmingly likely opportunity for them to have done so will be the interview and LNAT. Until he’s done the interview he honestly doesn’t know if he’s a total champion. Plenty of model school students are pretty average at it.

There’s also the random element of strength of intake.

So I’d go back to my first advice and say support him with what most enjoys in the interim, help him to do the best he can without feeling something less than ideal is a “ fail”, show him you believe in him and let him give it his best shot.