UCL over Imperial and Oxford?

[JulietOnTheMoon]

DS got an offer from UCL, Bristol, KCL, Imperial and Oxford. Currently his first choice is UCL.

It's him who goes, so obviously he should choose where he wants to go. But people seem to think DS would choose Oxford if not Imperial, and UCL would be a good back up.

Their reaction made me start this thread, just to collect more information from those who may know the differences and values of those universities. And with all the information and knowledge, I would like to chat with him and give him a chance to rethink before he makes a concrete decision.

Any words would be greatly appreciated.

Which subject is it for OP?

Given everyone I know hated UCL I would advise against it 😂. They were biology/ bio - chem/ physics and all 7 said it was awful. Good for postgrad students but rubbish for undergraduate.

Oxford and Imperial are considered a step above in most subjects I’d say, so it would be an unconventional choice to choose UCL over them. But with Oxford you have to be happy with the very different system which doesn’t suit everyone, so can see the argument there. Why does he like UCL so much? And for what subject?

DD chose UCL over offers from other London Unis (including Imperial) for Medicine (now 5th yr). She talked about how terrifically snooty Imperial was (she found that snootiness very attractive btw!)

She chose UCL bec, we discussed at length, she liked idea of a more rounded student cohort, not just scientists, to socialise with. Most her buddies turn out to be medical students after all, but... DD is quite arty & an all rounder. Identity wise, she didn't gravitate towards the most sciency Uni.

I did my undergrad at UCL and loved it. Met DH there too. I imagine it's quite different from Oxford, so depends what you want.

I went to school with a girl who really wanted to go to Imperial but felt pressured into choosing Oxford. I always wonder how she got on.

Wow well done to him, great offer list!

I think university in London (assuming here you do not live in London currently) is very different from uni in most other places. Accommodation and in fact everything is expensive and you might end up living a fair way from uni/friends – in a way that is not such an issue with even a big city like Leeds or Brum. OTOH there is the amazing cultural offer and ease of getting a part-time job, plus so many opportunities for internships etc.

Oxford as a PP notes is also a very specific experience. The tutoring system, the very intense short terms, the immensely high quality of fellow students (that was a massive shocker to me when I went to uni and I didn't go to Oxford) – all of these are not really found elsewhere (apart from Cambs). I'm not saying these are good or bad, but I would think most ppl would have an idea if this would suit them or not.

If not, it's fine to reject tho obvs unusual. Oxford as a place to live is smaller and more intensely beautiful than a lot of big cities. A former student who went there (and was very successful) described it to me as “a beautiful bubble” which I thought was interesting. Am I right in thinking that college accommodation is available and cheap for all three years? That's worth considering, especially as the other choices are all very expensive for accomm.

Bristol is different again – big-ish city with some of the cultural offer that entails, lots of students (UWE also). Very expensive for accommodation. I am a Bristol graduate myself and I loved it but it was not very diverse. That's many years ago tho.

Meant to say which subject @JulietOnTheMoon as that may make a difference?

I wouldn't get involved, if he doesn't like Oxford or Imperial, you will be blamed. Let him make his choices.

Wow thank you for the comments already!

It is for Chemistry, and I think he likes the diversity UCL seems to offer and also their math-heavy contents in the course...and his girlfriend is going there...

We live in London. He is planning to apply for accommodation for the first year, but he can come back from the second year if he wants. We live in SW so an easy bus ride to Imperial. UCL is also reachable.

Of course I will let him choose. I just like to make sure he is well informed before making the final decision. By the way, my favourite is Imperial, but I haven't shared this with him in case it may influence his decision (if he knows he may pick it or may deliberately avoid it 😂).

I loved my time at UCL - a while back I grant you.

I know just after COVID the Chemistry department there took on lots of overseas students which has impacted lab time. But things may have moved on.

If he's keen on London and studying Chemistry, it would seem odd to me turn down Imperial. How much is he influenced by where his girlfriend is going?

I’d worry about where the GF is going being a big factor that robs him of the best available education

This is why I thought I would seek more opinions/thoughts by posting here. Everyone around me says what LazJaz said. Obviously UCL is great university but everyone says imperial (and Oxford) was a step above and it would be unusual to turn them down for UCL.

DS says where GF goes isn’t a big factor. UCL was his favourite before he knew it was also her choice.

Girlfriend point is very suss. UCL is great but would be a somewhat unusual decision in this context so should be considered very carefully. I’d have real doubts that he is making the decision for purely sensible reasons given girlfriend (not say that there couldn’t be reasons, but harder to be sure)

I would let him choose but try and ensure he making a sensible decision. It's an unusual decision but there may or may not be valid reasons for it, the girlfriend would make me sceptical.

DD has a friend doing Chemistry at Bristol and loves it, they are very social, party every night, not sure how much chemistry gets done but very happy there. They were rejected from Imperial but would have taken it though as they love their parties I think Bristol probably suits them better. Oxford my daughter is there but for another subject, her accomodation is around £5,000 a year and in college all 3 years, she loves it, her course isn't too much work, she does a lot of rowing and socialising and for her it's perfect. Pastoral care has been excellent though she mainly goes for the free doughnuts and food. Imperial has an excellent reputation for science, my husband taught there, it seemed very intense and serious but they did socialise as well but more similar to if you were working in London though probably varies. I went to Cambridge and it was very similar to DDs Oxford experience and would agree with the beautiful bubble, very different social life to if working and lots of quirky people, a bit like David Attenborough though there's a variety of people. The people I know who disliked it struggled with posh people and preferred to only mix with state school people.

I’m a lecturer at UCL and think it’s a shame to give up Oxford. That’s an experience like no other.

Especially if it’s for a girlfriend.

I got a slightly unexpected offer for Oxford a long time ago and felt pressured to accept it. It wasn't for me and I left after a year to go somewhere else.

Oxford was another league in terms of education, tutoring, base level of peers etc. I found the intensity too much and I didn't meet "my people". I suspect my choice of college was part of my problem and others would have been a better fit.

my second uni was very well regarded (top 5 at the time) and a much better fit socially but the education much much poorer. Less varied, less knowledgeable , less enthusiasm. I was happy with my choice to change but I do understand why the very top universities are regarded as a different league by some people.

It's not just about the subjects though and the overall experience is important too.

Now I'm in the next life stage I think , for most people doing most degrees, the degree opens the next door in their career but it doesn't matter too much whether it's Imperial, Oxbridge or UCL. All are well regarded and once you get the first job, it's largely irrelevant where the degree is from

Oxford. Lovely town, good and local accommodation, loads going on, great college and small tutorial system.

Your son is making a silly decision because of a girl. Chances are they will not stay together, and he may regret this decision. A degree in Chemistry from Oxford or Imperial will obviously put his life onto a very different trajectory.

For a smart kid he is making a really silly choice.

Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts.

As HateThese4Leggedbeasts said, I also think it's largely irrelevant where the degree is from - a degree is a degree, and luckily DS's choices are all great anyway. So if he values UCL over other universities, I will support it. But I would like to make sure he is making sensible decisions. All the comments are deeply appreciated.

I understand Oxford is a different league, but DS has always wanted to stay in London, so it'll probably be UCL vs. Imperial. If he chooses UCL as his first choice, he will go there because their grades are very manageable.

Some posters seem to have decided that GF is the main reason for wanting to go to UCL. As I wrote earlier, it is not the main factor. He likes the diversity and the programme's content. The negative comments he heard about Imperial a while ago may also have influenced his views.

Dellspoem
DS has decided to turn down Oxford. He prefers to stay in London. Would you also consider it a shame to give up Imperial for UCL? Imperial may be slightly well regarded, but I believe both are top universities in the UK?

I think he's bonkers.

The cachet (whether merited or not) of Oxford and to a less extent Imperial will make a massive difference to anyone looking at his CV, either in the UK and especially internationally. This is especially important in the current job market.

An Oxford degree will open doors to him that are simply not available to grads from different institutions.

I'd remind him that Oxford is a short train ride to London, and also that the Oxford terms are very short - he'd be spending half the year in London anyway.

@JulietOnTheMoon we also live in SW London, and my DS is in final year at UCL. He has had a wonderful time. He was in halls in first year (very central in Bloomsbury), a flat-share in NW1 in his second year, and has been commuting from home in his third year. His lectures end at Easter, then he will have exams and be finished, so it wasn't worth signing up for another 12 months of accommodation. In any case, he now has many friends in London that he can stay overnight with when socialising. UCL is a very international university, so he also now has friends from all over the world to visit. During his time at uni he has played a lot of sport, and had a casual job - as have most of his friends. When we went to the Imperial Open Day we were told that it's rare for Imperial students to work part time due to the intensity of the course, and I suspect that Oxford will be similar.

Does your son's UCL offer have a slightly lower grade profile than Oxford/Imperial? My son was offered Astar, A, A from UCL whereas a couple of his alternatives wanted two Astars. That may partly account for the more well-rounded feel compared to Imperial, as well as the range of subjects offered. Also, if your son chooses an inter-collegiate hall of residence, as mine did, he'll get the chance to mix with students from SOAS, LSE, and other affiliated institutions.

Ucl aren’t great these days. I’d go Oxford. Better for job prospects too.

@JulietOnTheMoon just adding to my post above to say my son has a job lined up for September whereas his friend who went to Oxford is struggling to get one. Clearly not everyone is impressed by the cachet of Oxford and Imperial - there are other things they look for too. Chemists are in short supply, so he won't struggle to find a job so long as he applies for many and puts in solid applications.

He needs to think ahead. Getting graduate jobs is so competitive these days that he’d be mad not to seize the extra ‘edge’ that an Oxford or Imperial degree would give him.

Nowhere compares with having a degree from Oxford. A friend chose Imperial because it had a better course but he was held back in his teaching career because of it.