UCL over Imperial and Oxford?

[JulietOnTheMoon]

DS got an offer from UCL, Bristol, KCL, Imperial and Oxford. Currently his first choice is UCL.

It's him who goes, so obviously he should choose where he wants to go. But people seem to think DS would choose Oxford if not Imperial, and UCL would be a good back up.

Their reaction made me start this thread, just to collect more information from those who may know the differences and values of those universities. And with all the information and knowledge, I would like to chat with him and give him a chance to rethink before he makes a concrete decision.

Any words would be greatly appreciated.

UCL has changed a lot. They have gone all out for the Chinese market. A friend teaches there (science, but not chemistry) and says more than half her students don’t understand a word or contribute in tutorials. She isn’t allowed to do anything about this.

imperial or Oxford are about equal in prestige for STEM (I’m a scientist) but if his gf is in London imperial would be easier

Teaching career where? I am finding it hard to envisage a situation where a school SLT said “hmm we would offer you the job but your degree is from Imperial, not Oxford, so nope.” How would he know this anyway? very improbable feedback.

Or maybe you mean in academia. I know less about that tbf but still I’d be surprised if that was what he was told.

@JulietOnTheMoon you say yor DS's UCL offer is lower – is he worried that he might not make the other offers? or is it more taking the lower offer as a safety net?

I read a few years ago that Imperial really bullied their staff badly, which put me right off when my kids were choosing where to go for their science/engineering studies (8-10 yrsago) But I don't think UCL are saints. Saying that one dc went there, lived centrally/camden, and really enjoyed the course and their social life. Other DC went to Bristol and- likewise. Both are now gainfully employed, both also made a very international group of friends that they are each still very close to.

I know ppl here set a lot of store by which uni job-wise etc, but I really wanted my kids to enjoy their time and build confident social personalties too.

Yes that post is mad. I am an academic scientist and imperial is equivalent to Oxford and Cambridge for us. I do not believe someone is held back in their job as a science school teacher by having gone to imperial, either.

And just to add, if he is more drawn to the content of the particular course, that sounds like a very valid reason for the choice.

It was certainly a big factor for both my dcs - and indeed for me (I've now remembered I turned down an offer to study chemistry at Oxford myself, in favour of a syllabus I was more drawn to elsewhere - although as that was in a previous geological epoch my specific reasons may no longer be relevant 😅)

For his career in/ following chemistry, UCL and Imperial are top tier and he will do brilliantly regardless. But oxbridge opens doors for students like no other university.

I’d take the wider view - which isn’t easy for a teen, especially one who likes th think they don’t need to be swayed by perceptions and can be their ‘own man’ in deciding.

There’s one opportunity to be an undergrad and get an Oxbridge degree. There are many many more years capable to live in London working or studying and many more years to be with the girlfriend, if they are still together.

Maybe they will do a Masters and can go to a London Uni and as they live in London anyway, they will have lots of time there in holidays anyway.

Despite Imperial being truly amazing and no doubt opening all kinds of career doors, Oxford is truly unique. UCL - clearly very very good. But lots of places are vv good - other top RG unis too.

Is he having an anti-establishment or reverse snobbery thing going? Is he feeling too cool for societal norms and wanting to go against the flow? Clever teens can feel like this. The GF maybe more than a factor than he’s able to recognise himself - he’s flesh and blood after all!

Chemistry at Oxford is intense (all the courses are, but Chemistry especially so) and I’d totally agree with whoever described it as ‘a beautiful bubble’ - it is and has amazing opportunities. He has three very good offers though!
There was a post grad at the UCL open day who said she had turned down an Oxford offer to go to UCL and was very happy there.

I know you say the GF has nothing to do with it, but it does ring massive alarm bells.

In the end it may not make a huge amount of difference to outcomes but he will never know and not going to Oxford/Impetial may come back to bite him if he does lose a future opportunity because of it. As others have said he does have the rest of his life to live in London annd can easily do a post grad there.

I'd be interested to know why he applied to Oxford in the first place. Did he look into the Chemistry dept in any kind of detail and what was on offer there?

Or was applying to Oxford something the school (or parents) pushed him to do when he was never particularly bothered in the first place?

The reason I ask, is because that is going to be his #1 most promising opportunity and if the only reason he's decided against it now is down to a romance, then that would be a terrible waste.

Oh god…following his girlfriend….disaster. He should chose Oxford, he will regret it otherwise when he breaks up with his gf in a year. Job opportunities with an Oxford degree will far outweigh UCL.

I don't disagree, but worth noting Imperial has also gone all out for the Chinese market. A student I know there says most students on their course are Chinese, many of whom speak very little English and are using chatGPT or similar to generate coursework.
Ultimately, Imperial and UCL both have little endowment and need to the foreign students to balance the books. Oxford is stinking rich and can keep the foreign student numbers at the level it chooses - typically more like 30%, so half the 60% at the other two.
Having looked at both course content and UCAS points on entry I'd also agree academic standards at Oxford and Imperial in STEM are very similar. Historically Oxford has had slightly more cachet, but this reflects other peoples' perceptions rather than anything objective.

Everywhere in London has a lot of Chinese students, even the art schools.

@crisstalclear

Thank you for sharing your DS's positive experiences at UCL.

@Dellspoem
Thank you.

@clary
I don't think offered grades play a lot in his decision-making. If so, he could always put UCL for the second place. By the way, DS doesn't know Imperial's grades. They haven't told him yet.

@Greenblossom
DS also met a boy at the UCL open day who had turned down an Oxford offer. He sounded happy with his decision.

@LailaDelaila
DS was at a specialist school until 16 so Oxbridge was never discussed in our household. We discovered that he was an Oxbridge material when he moved to a local 6th form last year. School suggested. DS wasn't very keen at the beginning, but he quickly changed his views after the open day. Everything we saw there was impressive. But at around the interview season (Dec), he seemed to start losing his enthusiasm towards Oxford and had started saying he would prefer UCL/Imperial.

Ah that makes sense. If it wasn't really on his radar and he never really embraced it that would automatically rule it out.

Insane to turn down Oxford and imperial.

Deep down whilst my heart says imperial or Oxford is the better choice, there is not going to be any damage to his life outcomes by going to UCL.

Employer's will look upon UCL favourably

DS is in his second year at UCL and loves it.

We regularly recruit graduates and we do not differentiate between Oxbridge/Imperial/UCL or others. As long as they have a first class degree and exhibit qualities that fit the job. Better to go where he feels happy rather than for the prestige.

I did my undergraduate at Oxford and a MSc at UCL.

Imo, the difference in the standard and quality of teaching between the two was huge. At UCL I felt like a number and an inconvenience to my tutors who were really focused on research. The tutorial system at Oxford can’t really be beaten.

You’ve had lots of other comments but I wanted to pick up on one point. You mentioned specifically that he’s attracted by the maths heavy content of the UCL chemistry course. I don’t know what the differences are between the curricula at his various options but I’d be very surprised if oxford and imperial weren’t right at the upper end of maths content. (I’m a chemist with a long career in a very mathsy area).

DS said he would keep his options open until he attends the offer-holder day. However, he still thinks it would be between Imperial and UCL. He understands the cachet of Oxford, but he can't see the point of moving out while he has great options here in London. He feels there would be little difference in the outcomes, whether he attends UCL, Imperial, or Oxford (as some posters pointed out).

However, quite a few posters seem to think turning down Oxford is mad, even though his other options are not bad (rather great). I get the same reaction in real life. Half of me understands, but half of me can't. I admire their tutoring system, I loved the atmosphere, people I met there were all lovely. But what kind of doors exactly open only to Oxbridge students?? Excuse my ignorance...

"But what kind of doors exactly open only to Oxbridge students??"

@JulietOnTheMoon Doors that are opened by other ex-Oxbridge students. It's a club.