If your child was planning on studying Art/Fine Art at Uni, would you advise them against it due to lack of job prospects (and AI)?

[NewYearNewBear]

Just that really.
My daughter loves art and is studying it as an A level subject and wants to study fine art at University.
She got an 8 at GCSE exam.

She thinks she can become a portrait artist and doesn't seem to want to consider related carers like graphics etc.
Would you advise them against studying Art even though it's probably the only thing they are passionate about?

Oh that's lovely🙂

I know a young person, with modest exam results, who did just a foundation year in fine art, along with work experience in hospitality. That got her onto an apprenticeship with a well known auction house. It is not a permanent position, but it is a step in the right direction, and she is able to make contacts and pursue art as a hobby in the meantime.

Would look to do an MA HD2025, where you do your MA is more important than your degree, look at the London institute for the arts, all colleges. Goldsmiths and Chelsea are very good at supporting their post grads into work. Sometimes they are sponsored onto the tutor course at Greenwich. After which you can tutor on university courses and run your own practiceso working your way up. Don't give up and never take another coffee shop job. There are so many connections on MA courses and so many non profits to look at for paid work
as an artist or technician. You can also look at schools and colleges for technicians work. You have to do the leg work and get you C.V. circulated. Find a print gallery to produce a range to sell online, will eventually pay for itself and keep money rolling in, make sure you're on Instagram or tik tok and look at the real art fair. Stop, reassess and move onwards and upwards. It's only over if you both say it is. It is a hustle but she's worth it.

I work in tech and meet quite a lot of people with an art background. I think it’s because art is fundamentally about ideas, trying them out, failing, trying again! Creativity, being able to take on feedback and see a project through to the end are very valuable skills.

I wouldn’t advise art over stem or more vocational courses but I think it’s more useful than any of the essay based subjects.

I would probably point them towards something more product design/ innovation related though.

Don't dissuade her. My mum did this to me, citing similar concerns about job prospects. I was steered towards a traditional academic degree, which was still interesting but not my true passion.
I lost motivation, got depressed and spent most of my time at uni drinking and smoking weed with other people who also felt "meh" about their degrees.
Still somehow managed to get a first but in the end the degree (in a humanities subject) was of no more use to me in the job market than an art degree would have been.
I got a good-ish job eventually, but only because I did a taught MA afterwards that included a professional qualification and a work placement.
I've spent my adult life feeling like I haven't fulfilled my true potential and have been in jobs that never really felt like the right fit, leading to low self esteem, feeling out of place and depression.
After doing a lot of soul searching, pivoting and further retraining I'm now (aged 36) finally in a job I like, in design.
I carried on doing art on my own and at leisure evening classes and I'm now applying to do it part time at college, because my biggest regret in life is listening to my mum and not pursuing it when I was younger. I should be grateful that she supported me through uni and I am, but also deep down I feel resentful that she killed my dreams before I even got started.
I think parents like mine and the OP are well meaning but have a lot of misconceptions about creative careers (my mum worked in science).
Your DD may or may not go on to be a portrait artist. There are other options available and she can see for herself when she goes to uni and when she graduates what is and isn't a viable career path.

I know a number of people who studied art, they've done a range of things afterwards - one is a full time photographer at a newspaper, another ran art workshops for people with mental health issues and creative play classes for children, others work at art galleries. Some create art for exhibitions and also run classes and workshops, and do various freelance projects.
There are also jobs like graphic design, UX and UI design, interaction design, content design, videographer etc. They're available in both the private and public sector, some charities, start ups etc.
My current job is in one of these fields, at a large public sector organisation and I'm working towards senior level (can earn up to £60k), even more in some private sector companies.
You do need additional skills and work experience/portfolio but this can be done alongside the main degree. I did most of my learning from places like Udemy (free short courses) and got experience by doing free work for charities.
If you're worried about the cost of a degree she could also consider an HND at a college, which is much cheaper and more practical. They also have good links with local employers.

Depends on the personality, if they are a proactive go getter who puts themselves out there, has bags of confidence and drive then brilliant, do something creative. You'll know they'll always have a side hustle on the go and get by while knocking on doors:

If they don't and wait for things to fall into their laps, then they're never going to make it and it would be a total waste of money.

Yes, I'm someone who gradually moved from art into tech quite organically as I found coding and architecture very satisfying.

People assume it's a big change but it isn't, I can feel it fires my brain in the same way.

At its most basic, art is representation and communication, and so is coding/solution architecture. Adding a little more cynicism, art is also politics, networking, brand and hustle, and so is a corporate career.

There is a thread on here about how do you help your dc in this job market get a job, graduates from all subject areas are struggling to find work. The job market is now global and then there is AI and robotics to contend with. Both these fields are improving at breakneck speed and will probably be able to do things in a few years we didn't think possible. It won't be long before there is no field AI proof and therefore no degree that will guarantee a job. So if you are going to do a degree you may as well do one that you enjoy!

I did a Fine Art degree as a mature student. I work as a portrait artist. It’s a VERY competitive field and most artists have to have other forms of income. I have a good work pension meaning I’m not dependent on my art.

That's not necessarily true. She's not going to be able to apply to be a pharmacist, nuclear scientist or foreign language teacher. What am I missing

That's not necessarily true. She's not going to be able to apply to be a pharmacist, nuclear scientist or foreign language teacher. What am I missing

No obviously not. However, I know of 3 young people in office/IT/journalism jobs, 2 have creative degrees (think film studies/music type) and one has a History masters. My friends company will only hire graduates, they're not bothered what the degree is in as long as it's there on paper. As I said, it's not all companies, and not all careers (obviously if you want to be a doctor you'll need a medical degree, rather than fine art degree) but it definitely is some.

I'd read @Maliotopolo's post very carefully.

Agreed that AI isn't the concern in Fine Art.

I did graphic design in the dark ages at one of the worlds top art unis (though how they get that ranking is beyond me). Graduated on the cusp of computer age - I started in the art department of a large magazine publishing house but had to pivot as computers came in. None of my uni-learned technical skills were needed anymore, but I guess I had a trained 'eye'.
My DD was set on animation. But she's much smarter than me, and did a lot of research in to what an animation career would look like - of course she has the advantage of the internet! She was also interested in 2D hand drawn animation, which is making a comeback to some extent. She took courses at CSM and Kingston and grilled the teachers. She looked at all those very talented animators and their reels on insta. She checked up on the backgrounds of studio heads she admired. Conclusion? She'd most likely end up with a 'normal' day job and constantly hustling for freelance work, which she would do remotely. Not the cosy small team studio she dreamed of. She's had already planned on an Art Foundation year, which she did and enjoyed.
But she's now very happy doing Sociology at Durham with the aim of social research, academia or perhaps investigative journalism (she works on the student newspaper).
AI is a force to be reckoned with, and I have heard that many entry level creative jobs are now done by AI. Fine art however is almost a calling. Like it's not an option, they 'need' to do it. But every artist I know (my mother was an art dealer), even some quite well known ones, taught. Partly as it keeps them surrounded by talented arty people and they enjoyed helping students grow in their creativity, but also to help put bread on the table!
While I do think one should study their passion, I'm not so sure about the 'any degree will do' in terms of graduate schemes and the like. Why spend three/four years doing one thing only to end up doing something you have little interest in? My cousin did TV and film and is now a buyer at Tesco via their graduate training scheme.
However I also take issue with your friends practice @MermaidEyes. What is it about that piece of paper that is better than say three years working? My son (21), who did a vocational qualification and has been working in high end retail since 17 is surely better qualified than my cousin for that job at Tesco? But he'd take years to climb up from the shop floor - whereas she jumped right in. Her only work experience was nights at a pub. He has four years direct retail experience. Doesn't make sense to me.
OP I do know a portrait painter. She's great. But she couldn't do it full time - the time she spends painting a portrait and how much she'd have to charge to make a liveable wage doesn't tally. She taught art (she also married a high earner - cyber security, so now has the luxury of being able to choose the commissions she wants).

My sister went down this road. Ended up being an art teacher and a very good one at that. But jobs are limited and teaching is one of the few with regular income.

I have been looking into AI more as I have been fascinated by the deepseek episode which has really shaken US AI. The more I look into it, the more I agree that AI will mop up the majority of human jobs, with Robotics taking another huge number. And I don't believe that AI will create jobs to replace them that it cannot do itself anyway! Someone mentioned journalism, this is an industry that has been decimated by AI, just read half the online articles. And if one more person says people just need to train as plumbers and electricians, lol, exactly how many do we need?

I just don't think our Governments are ready for this and with what we are seeing across the pond in USA, I don't think the idea of a UBI will work either as the trust is no longer there. I find it all terrifying yet very interesting!!! And once again I think just do what you love!

I wouldn’t (and haven’t) advised my child against pursuing a degree in Art if that is their passion. Life is long and there is plenty of time to divert to other paths if the first one doesn’t work out. How many of us have ended up doing what we initially planned?
It is indeed hard to make a living as a portrait artist but why would you want to deny your child the chance to even try to pursue their dream?

DD is in a similar position to the OP's dd. She loves art and would like to study Fine Art at university. Her passion at the moment is portraiture too. At 17, she already takes commissions. But, most art schools don't appeal to her. She isn't currently attracted to concepts and contemporary art and ideas over skills. So, all of this puts her off. It's making it very difficult to consider fine art and where to study it. It's all very well considering Charles Cecil, FAA or Heatherly, but these are all private institutions for which a student can't obtain a student loan. It's a rotten system that doesn't support students seeking skill-based courses in art. We wouldn't be able to fund her tuition, living expenses and accommodation. The other thing she's considering is if going to art school will actually be worth it. If she has a two year list of portrait commissions at the moment, and art school is not going to teach her skills, or will look down on her interest or method. It's just very difficult to decide on the right path. For those who are portrait artists, it would be lovely to have a link to your work.

Has she looked at Norwich University of the Arts NUA. My daughter has found it a great place to study illustration and they seem very focused on building networks and practicals skills. And the city is a lovely place for students.

Hi everyone, thanks again for all your advice.
I am thinking of advising my daughter to do a foundation year before going to fine art college but don't know much about the process so looking for advice.
Can you apply to do a foundation year at any college that offers them or do you have to go to one in your borough? We are in West London.
How does the application process work?
Are they all free?
Do they have open days like universities?
TIA

Yes you can apply to any college that offers them regardless of location. You apply directly to each college. They are not all free but plenty are still free. And yes they have open days. One of the best and most competitive is Kingston U but we were also impressed with WM college

I would say as an illustration graduate (nearly 15 yrs ago though), I am a freelance illustrator but have always had a full time job to ensure stability, so the freelance work was a bonus. The pay is way way more than I earned at my full time job when I do get a commission, however it can be very feast and famine.

Looking back I probably didn't NEED to do that degree for my own personal work development as such, however I had the best time studying the arts, moved to London for it, met amazing friends and met my now husband via that course. Life and therefore uni isn't always about just getting that well paid job, however I would advise always have other strings to your bow and if you do go into an Arts (and not an applied art like graphic design/animation/interior design etc which usually lead to a job in a studio) then be prepared mentally to hustle after and do something else as well as the art. Some people earn full time and it's good to go in with that "why not me then" mentality whilst also being stable enough to have a contingency plan. My full time job actually became my plan A in the end as found a lovely career in heritage, and when I get a commission its lovely to be an illustrator as a bonus without the stress of having to live on it.

AI is scary for creatives but hoping that the companies who would have used cheapest method before will use AI and reputable ones will continue to commission artists 🤞

It's a long time since I did my foundation diploma but it was a must to apply to alot of the unis ineas looking at for me, couldn't get in without one. Is there a college that offers it near you? Kingston definitely does though that's more Surrey, you can look at the website for the brochure of the college and courses and apply with info on there. I started that course thinking I would be moving to Glasgow to study fine art and ended up studying Illustration in London, learned so much it was a great year.

We still need to encourage creativity in our young people. The world needs artists. Not everyone should be part of the production line and let’s face it many jobs are eventually under threat from AI, even doctors. So let her follow her passion.

When I studied design, many moons ago, a foundation course was expected even if you had A levels (I have both). But regardless, a foundation course is massively beneficial, A level art is often so narrow, a foundation course gives you a much broader experience. I went into mine wanting to be a fashion designer and came out with a totally different career plan. Some people came out knowing art wasn't in their future and that's fine too, far better to realise before embarking on the expense of a degree.

Yes i would.