If your child was planning on studying Art/Fine Art at Uni, would you advise them against it due to lack of job prospects (and AI)?

[NewYearNewBear]

Just that really.
My daughter loves art and is studying it as an A level subject and wants to study fine art at University.
She got an 8 at GCSE exam.

She thinks she can become a portrait artist and doesn't seem to want to consider related carers like graphics etc.
Would you advise them against studying Art even though it's probably the only thing they are passionate about?

I think it really depends to a degree on your circumstances OP. Sadly we're in a landscape where it's very, very difficult to make a decent living within the creative industries and embarking on any degree has financial consequences.

My friend's DS is not academic but talented at art. He will probably do an art degree - but he's from a very wealthy family. His parents will be able to support his living costs through his degree and, later on, buy a place to live and will no doubt help with living costs if necessary. In his case, it's a 'low risk' option. Such circumstances are not the case for most people - the harsh truth is that most people need to support themselves in the world, and for artists that isn't easy.

There are, of course, a number of vocations beyond an art degree - film/TV, for example. But these are immensely competitive - and an art degree isn't essential, even if you want to go and become a set designer, for example.

A few things to think about - a year-long art foundation courses after school are free, so she could always do that and see how she goes. Also, if she really, really wants to do an art degree but is worried about earning power, remember that paying off student debt is income dependent. Simply put, if she never goes on to earn over a certain amount, she won't need to repay!

Finally, and I mean this kindly OP, an 8 in GCSE art doesn't always equate to an immense talent that must be nurtured at all costs. At my dd's school, pretty much all of them got 8s and 9s at GCSE. A handful of those have gone on to do art A-level (including my dd), but I don't think any of them are planning to embark on a fine art degree - I think they all feel that it's too narrow in terms of future career prospects.

Yes I would discourage it.

My DD did a degree in one of the Arts. I tried to gently discourage her but she went ahead. She could not get a job in the field and ended up doing a second degree a few years later after several minimum wage jobs. She now has an excellent career and has a hobby involving her original passion. Thankfully her second degree was in a branch of nursing so did not involve further student loans. She is still paying off the loans from her first degree though.

When my children were smaller I knew a couple of people who seemed to earn decent livings from either children's portraiture or making casts of baby's feet. However as in any small business you need to be organised and entrepreneurial.

My DD is thriving on a fine art course, she is realistic about our opportunities afterwards ( although unbelievably talented.
She has the rest of her life to be a wage slave, at 18yo we made the decision to let her do what she loves (art and music) for three years, we can worry about the future later.
It is a very good course at a prestigious university.

I know two people who graduated from University in the last three years, one with first in design for computer games, one with a first in fine art. The first works as a cook in a pub, the second was going to train as an art therapist ( another two years) but worked in retail until becoming pregnant.

Friend without art degree ( went to evening classes for many years) retired recently for commerce, has more commissions for pet portraits than she can complete.

I think the main problem is that the joy of creating can easily get tarnished as you struggle to make it into a paying career.

"She thinks she can become a portrait artist" @NewYearNewBear

Surely talent is the deciding factor? You obviously don't think so?

Why would anyone pressurize someone who has the soul of an artist into being a scientist?

Baffled.

If you can easily afford to fund it then fine. She can enjoy her three years, might get lucky but will always have it as a hobby. Then she could re-train in something more marketable.
If it means £50k of student loans you may decide that's not necessarily a bad thing because she may well never earn enough to repay any.
It's hard enough to get a job if you have a STEM degree.
All the DC I know who did Art degrees are working in coffee shops and trying to get somewhere in art on the side.

Can I ask why you hated it so much?

No of course not,it's her decision

Yes, a friend of mine’s daughter studied Photography BA in Southampton or Portsmouth. Got a first. Of the 90 odd who took the degree only 2 are working in a photography related field 15 years later. And one of those was her daughter until she was made redundant from two jobs within a year (photographic dept of the marketing dept of a major high street chain/store previously. Roles no longer needed).

I’m a creative (PhD in creative writing, BA and MA in Eng Lit) and the departments at the local unis and in my own have reduced by 50-75%, so you cannot even rely on uni level creative jobs in this market. I will likely simply go into PT 16+ teaching to support me while finishing my novel. I may run private tutoring/classes. I can afford to do it as I’m 50+, it’s a ‘hobby’ that I’m hoping to develop into an income at very little risk to my standard of living (mortgage paid off etc), and DH is, well, loaded as a senior exec in his company. Would absolutely not encourage a young person into it as a ‘main’ career, only as a hobby/sideline, unless there is inherited wealth/family support.

Just to add - I wouldn’t ‘advise’ your daughter against Fine Art - I’d encourage her to do her homework - look at the destination data for graduates, explore what Masters she would be eligible to do with it (teaching, psychology, law conversion etc), look at average salaries 18m and 5 years post grad (look at how much debt she would have at that stage too and how would she feel if she cannot make a dent in it due to a low salary). Encourage her to speak to the school/college careers advisor. If she is really entrepreneurial she may be able to make it work, but if she is introverted/shy and/or has a very narrow interest (eg only portraiture) she may need to think long and hard about how she would make it pay?

Yes, I would advise against. Strongly.

No I wouldn't. Assuming she's still just as passionate about Art once she gets to 6th form, then she should go for it. There are loads of stable careers available to graduates with fine art degrees. Before her degree she'll need to complete a foundation course, which will include a range of disciplines including graphics, and so she'll get an even clearer idea of her strengths and the possibilities. The training is robust and you come out with real skills. She should aim for the top Art schools.

I wouldn't worry that her current idea for a career is pretty prescriptive- I'm sure I had specific ideas like at at that age, it evolves as you grow and develop and most importantly are exposed to learning, and professional experiences artists through the undergraduate course.

Nope. I would not.

I want my daughter to have a happy and fulfilled life.

I want her to find her passion and find joy from it long after I am dead and buried

But that's just me.

My goodness, this is appalling. How awful for your children.

I know people who studied fine art and work on film and tv productions so I think there will be different career avenues to consider.

A decent university course would provide guidance on employability and career prospects (but they are so underfunded I imagine some of this has gone out the window since I was at uni). Do any of the courses offer industry placements?

Artist here. I’m both a contemporary artist and also freelance for luxury fashion designs. If she wants to be a traditional portrait artist then she needs to steer clear of the contemporary art schools which will be very sneery about this, and go to an atelier school, my recommendation Charles Cecil in Florence. Their graduates are the go to portrait painters for the aristocrats and business men. She will need to hone her skills in networking and also bookkeeping etc.

totally agree with you @Knowitall69 ❤️

Not an area I know much about, but a friend's child took a year long art foundation year.....enough for her to know she did not want to do a full degree.

She was bright, with A level maths, so she took a second year out during which she studied for a physics A level, and went to University to study something like design engineering. I assume she could have equally studied architecture or something else where her art talent and training was of use. Would a foundation year be an option, even though it adds a year to the course?

I’m a mature fine art student currently and I’m aware that the prospects are bad for arts jobs currently but AI hasn’t changed the job markets as we were already being undercut by mass produced products (this is something a lot of arts degrees cover). On the plus side depending on the uni there is options for an additional year for a level 5 diploma which can be in a more practical qualification for example computing design which is an option I’d encourage them to take - best of both worlds!

@Needmoresleep most Art undergraduate courses require applicants to complete a foundation course first.

I would say do a degree she enjoys and actually wants to study towards.

A degree can help you get your first job, it doesn’t really matter what subject it’s in (ignoring vocational degrees). Once you’re in the world or work, nobody really cares about your degree. I’ve literally never been asked about mine 😂

I was completely burned out from having to work part time, I didn’t gel with a few of my Tutors, the course was oversold to me in regards to how ‘practical’ it was (I’m awful at essays etc). I thought there would be more links to the art world and connections/ opportunities but there really wasn’t.
as I said, I too became very jaded as a young woman who’s not white British and I’m working class background I was often used as a commodity when the tutors / other pupils needed me (ie let’s push the ‘diverse’ course member to the front of photos for the website) etc etc I could go on but it opened my eyes to just how unfair the art world is and honestly took me years to get out of the funk of how angry I was about it. I’m glad I have a degree I guess? Because it’s marginally better than not having one. I dunno I thank my stars I went before tuition fees went crazy.

Unless you’re a mature (aged over 25) student or you have an exceptional talent

I advised my DC against a medical degree and was told by all my friends I was a terrible parent for doing so (non of whom have worked in the NHS btw!). DC was adamant so I changed my attitude and helped him as much as I could at the end of year 12 and he did his bit and he started his medical degree 2 weeks after turning 18 (still so young).

My advice, let your DD excel at what she wants to do and loves. She will come to understand the realities of adult life soon enough.