Law at which?

[stubiff]

Any recommendations for Law from (only) these.
They all have the same tariff, that's why they are grouped.
City/campus doesn't matter.

University of Nottingham
University of York
University of Sheffield
University of Exeter
Cardiff University
University of Birmingham
Newcastle University
University of Southampton
University of Liverpool

Thanks, in advance.

The Bar has NOT moved towards RG. It’s a slightly lower proportion now than it was but it’s still a very high percentage. If you ever advise anyone wanting to be a barrister the best advice has always been RG behind Oxbridge. The regional bar takes fewer Oxbridge but still mostly RG. The reason being DC who are the brightest do go to the RG unis. Some of the other unis don’t even teach some academic subjects. The Bar is still 50% non law so there’s a variety of unis supplying barristers but very many have first class degrees from first class unis. With only 500 plus pupillages available each year, chambers can be choosy. And they are! Many puoillages don’t go to fresh out of uni either. If can take a while to get one.

So it’s RG+ let’s throw in Bath and Loughborough, they are top Unis.
And it’s kind of self fulfilling as roughly 75% of the top 30 are RG. And coincidentally the former two don’t offer Law so that 50% of intake is more of less all RG.

@stubiff The Bar is still about 50/50. This could change is young people don’t want to do the conversion courses in the future but at the moment around 2000 qualify for the bar every year. The conversion courses will have supplied a good number of these.

The Bar stats don’t reality have St Andrews for obvious reasons but Bath and Lancaster and Loughborough don’t supply that many barristers. Lawyers are more likely to go to Bristol or Manchester. Loughborough less likely too as Nottingham or Birmingham would be better. Nowhere is ruled out but you tend to get groups of like minded students and opportunities. So when to apply for Mini pupillages? Which ones? Has the Bar come to the uni to give info? What connections are there? This is valuable.

@stubiff The bar has many non law grads. You seem to forget this. So do solicitors.

Hey ! If it helps - please tell your daughter that back in 2010 I missed by 1 mark for my final A to get into Leeds so I get it! (It was the year before the fee increase so very competitive and they wouldn't reconsider)

I'm now 5 years PQ and have worked at both a great firm and big in-house names - now sole legal counsel at a tech company (all up north, which was also important to me!)

Tell her to try to enjoy university, don't get too swamped, but sadly grades do matter so don't let her non-law (or failing!) friends convince her to bail on studies, it's worth it at graduation! The degree lasts longer than some of the friendships! 😂

An exciting time for her!

No I don’t forget it. Am fully aware of it for Solicitors. I didn’t know it for barristers that’s why I asked, but I don’t care, as I keep saying, DS is not going down that route. That’s the bit you keep forgetting!

In general as between those Unis it won't matter. Oxbridge is a different matter. It will be more about A level grades in subjects that are perceived as rigorous and the same for the uni. subject and getting some work experience.

For the solicitor route it is grades and work experience that gets you into the interview stage after that the firm's assessment process will decide. The interview stage happens before they get to the end of their degree so although they can say expect to get x class degree it won't determine it.

If they miss out on a training contract first time around, it is at that point the degree class is more relevant.

The bar is a lot more competitive and has fewer places and really is about the very brightest.

I'd say York, Newcastle or Nottingham. All have great reputations for Law but she's best picking 3-5 and visiting as many law school open days as possible.

Look at how they assess/do exams, if there's a law practice to work in as a student, a placement year etc. she can then assess more than just rankings - it's no use if she picks a uni she thinks "sounds good" but she does miserably as it's all written exams and she prefers coursework.

Also look to see if there are specialist modules she likes? Why not take a chance to study sport law if she likes!

I like the advice of considering which universities link to which cities - I've known northern firms hire southern grads and vice versa but she might find her law school has it "in" with some local firms who look at graduates favourably. Worth considering!

Where do you get these figures from @TizerorFizz? is this what your dd tells you? I really can’t believe law firms or chambers would care if an excellent candidate went to Lancaster or Birmingham.

In terms of a tactical approach for a high but not top achiever then applying to a particular uni with a view to joining a middle ranking regional firm in the area could pay huge dividends later on. Not least because a very good quality of life is far more accessible than it is in London with all the associated horrors of impossible house prices and crazy hours. But it's hard for young people to think like this - it's generally something they come to later. I would say there's a lot to be said for going regional early. Some of the unis named have incredibly beautiful countryside on their doorstep too. The one caveat is being confident that the work on offer is interesting enough. Perhaps look at the websites of the regional firms in a given area and see what cases they have in their 'news' section?

No. BSB. Loads of data if you look for it. Chambers Student.
@stubiff I genuinely tried to answer your queries. Do with it what you want but you did ask. Also - students change their minds. You might think you are doing all this for DC but you never know! They have minds of their own and it might not be what you think they should do. They might want a law job but work in house.

I can see lots about vocational providers on the BSB website but nothing about breakdown of universities. I have noticed that some chambers don’t publish which universities their pupils studied at. I think that’s a positive step. It stops all these nonsense conversations.

@BrickRedLipstick You are poorly informed but never mind. And less of the nasty crap about me not going to uni! What difference does that make in this conversation. And no, DD not giving me info but her closest bar school friends are mostly Oxbridge and some Durham. That’s obviously a tiny selection and most chambers say uni (some chambers only take Oxbridge) and list scholarships and awards and positions of importance, eg juducial assistant etc. Not sure where you’ve looked for info but I appear to be a non degree holder with better research skills. Probably because I needed to.

Do many London chambers really not list uni if you click on individual members' CV/ education?

Some, not all.

Sort of what proportion BrickRedLipstick? A random flick on a few sets and all show uni. Could you say a couple which don't - interested to see whether there's a theme in terms of type of work etc.

DS didn't do law but did a different masters at Nottingham. He found that party life was great, but overall he was very unhappy there as he felt Nottingham was the right university for him.

I couldn’t even begin to tell you the percentage @AsTearsGoBy I thought it was Doughty Street but I’ve just checked and it isn’t there. I know a YP who is thinking of the Bar and was looking at where recent recruits had studied and noticed their universities weren’t mentioned. There are loads of barristers who don’t list where they studied. They probably don’t want to incur the wrath of @Tizerorfizz for not having studied somewhere she thinks is acceptable.

So is the information not on the BSB website?

@lawyer199112 thank you for your lovely post I will definitely pass it on. She missed it by 2 so very similar.
I do think it gave her the rocket she needed though as she's been building her CV from pretty much day 1. Her grades are excellent and she's been fortunate to secure quite a few mini pupillages and plenty of work experience too. She's also built her CV outside of law and has organised some charity events through another society she's involved in as well has holding a really useful position in the law society.

Sometimes things happen for a reason!

Yes, DS will be looking at apprenticeships as well. Am trying to encourage/cajole him to apply for summer (of Y12) legal work experience. He’s just emailed his first (no CV required) but they are full. So next will be to do a CV for others. Fortunately, some haven’t opened applications yet.

Doughty Street does mention education in cv of barristers.

It very much depends on area of law as to where people studied. It’s always best to do thorough research. London or regional. National or City London. Smaller or large? What area of law? Criminal and family and civil are more flexible re uni.

Nothing much incurs my wrath but crap that all unis are equal does. In a hugely competitive area of work, take note that 75% of solicitors are RG. More at the Bar. 40% of tenants are Oxbridge. The truth can hurt but it’s still the truth. Also read the Preliminary Warning on Chambers Student. It’s a warning for a reason - stats are frightening.

Just to add: as neither DH or me knew anything about the career dd wanted, there was an impetus to find out. Then worry! Knowledge is power though,

I was partly right about 50/50 split on law/non law degrees. It’s more of a London thing. Far more law grads in the regions.

@TizerorFizz If you read my post properly you would have seen I said I thought it was Doughty Street but then realised it wasn’t. For someone who has mocked me for my lack of research skills that takes the biscuit. As for everything else you say I will take it, as I usually do, with a healthy pinch of salt.

@TizerorFizz
Specifically (!) about '75% of solicitors are RG.'
For others' context this comes from a report of 100+ top firms.
What do you think the reason for this is - some possibles - that roughly 75% of the top unis are RG (and the top Law firms want, obv, the top people), that there is RG bias in recruitment, that RG adds more value (previously you said that non RG don't have extras (whatever extras are), some combination of those, or something else?
Thanks.