"3 prestigious universities about to go bust" - on Radio 5 live this morning..

[devilsadvocate77]

...heard a chap who was contributing as part of Nicky's slot (still on) say that three unis are about to go bust, not to mention the many others who are running at a deficit.

Nicky asked if he would name them but he refused.

Any ideas??

the other side is government funding for R&D which was a flat cash settlement this year - effectively a cut due to inflation and horizon tuck in. the story isn't solely student numbers / funding (though appreciate it is the majority factor)

Oxford Brookes invested heavily in new buildings and in accommodation for overseas students to the detriment of the actual non-academic city.

We need to sort out social mobility in this country so that young people from less privileged backgrounds can access the best universities. Before we even think about Erasmus we would need to make sure every student has the opportunity to access excellent language teaching. Otherwise it’s just perpetuating the inequality and the dominance of the middle-classes. Perhaps though that’s what some mumsnetters want?

I’m quite surprised all these universities investing in accommodation. Most university towns I know have had large investments in student accommodation by the private sector (often to the dismay of locals).

Social mobility, especially of the lowest performing group (white working class males) is a different issue. Replacing the current middle class with a different one does not increase university funding.

I never said it did.

The Horizon costs being tucked in is looking really worrying.

There will be no technical colleges needed soon as there will be no small businesses/manufacturing/farming jobs for people without degrees to do.

At my son's Uni, the "campus" accommodation was under some kind of deal financed by others, maybe PFI. The Uni themselves didn't pay for it. Nothing shown on the Uni's annual accounts for student accommodation blocks, just the faculty buildings, lecture theatres, offices, etc. Presumably the Uni got some kind of "commission" and/or rental as the buildings were built on Uni owned property. The actual management, admin, cleaning and maintenance of the accommodation blocks were also outsourced - separate small office block, staff involved not wearing Uni logo'd uniforms etc. The Uni had it's own ground grounds workers, but they didn't do any gardening, litter picking, etc in the immediate area of the accommodation blocks - eg they mowed the lawns surrounding the accommodation blocks but not the lawns within the footprint of the blocks, etc.

As for private student accommodation elsewhere, it's just pure competition. If a Uni has the land, and it feels it can make a profit from providing student accommodation on their sites, then they'd be crazy not to do so. It makes no sense to have empty land and just watch private developers make money a few miles away. It's also a very good marketing opportunity when attracting new students, especially from abroad, if they have "on site" accommodation as lots of students would prefer that, especially in the first year, than having to live a few miles away and traipse across town by bus or bike every morning!

It's all about choice. Some students prefer to live on campus (at least first year, but some for all years), some prefer vibrant city centre living. Some prefer "professional" purpose built student flats, some prefer living in a HMO converted from what was previously a traditional family home. The more choice and options, the more attractive the university will be to prospective students. We're well passed the days of students rocking up at uni never having seen it before, having to share bedrooms with random strangers or even living in dorms, etc.

Students are paying extortionate amounts of money for their courses AND accommodation (whether private or Uni owned), so are right to expect lots of choice and options to suit them.

I started an apprenticeship in 1997, soon after I started, the college I did the city and guilds course (which led to the appenticeship) closed down and was turned into luxury flats.

An older friend insisted it was better if I got a "proper" qualification from a university. But nearly everyone in the industry learns on the job and is judged on practical skills and experience. I'm not convinced I'd have progressed further or been paid more if I'd had a degree, although at that point there weren't tuition fees

As for private student accommodation elsewhere, it's just pure competition. If a Uni has the land, and it feels it can make a profit from providing student accommodation on their sites, then they'd be crazy not to do so.

The reason not to do so would be cash flow.

Apprenticeships also have their issues: https://feweek.co.uk/outstanding-for-dysons-axed-degree-apprenticeships/

The other issue with degree apprenticeships is you are tied to the fortunes of the company for the duration.

As we're seeing with the shortage of tradesmen over the last 20 years, there are ALWAYS jobs for people more suited to trades/vocations than for academic degrees.

The country has made a massive mistake for the past 20-30 years to concentrate education on 16-21 year olds and on more "academic" qualifications.

It was a massive mistake to scrap a World leading Adult education industry, to scrap the Polys, to convert FE colleges to concentrate on 16-18 year olds, etc.

Just because we don't have huge factories full of "minions" making high quantity low value items anymore, doesn't mean we don't make things or need people with manual/technical skills. The UK remains in the top 10 of World rankings for manufacturing!

I spent a few years as accountant in a firm that designed and manufactured electrical connectors for the Worldwide oil and gas industry. We made connectors that cost several thousand pounds EACH, one was particularly specialist, high voltage, virtually indestructible as it sat on the sea bed so subject to huge pressures, gases, acids, etc., which cost £25k each! We were constrained by the number and quality of staff we could employ - there was no "competition" for jobs - basically anyone with the right qualifications and experience got offered a job, we recruited far and wide including bringing engineers from Italy and as far afield as Brazil. That wasn't just designers and engineers with degrees - we need "manual" workers such as fitters, installers, etc., to actually go out and fit, service and support these connectors. They were virtually impossible to find too.

For two or three decades, any teenager half way competent has been funnelled into universities and degrees. That's left a vacuum of at least half the population who aren't "equipped" for academic studies, who have basically been kicked aside and left languishing on uninspiring, poor quality, college courses that are often still overly "academic" rather than practical. Those people struggle along, doing low quality, low skilled work. All the while, we're desperately short of well trained tradesmen and manual workers, such as plumbers, electricians, garage mechanics, etc. We've a massive shortage of electricians due to the current demand for installing solar panels, electric car charging points, air source heat pumps, etc. A shortage of garage mechanics - have you tried to book your car in for a service lately - you're typically looking at a wait of 6-8 weeks as garages can't fill vacancies.

Yes, hence why some use other peoples' money, i.e. under PFI or similar financing agreements. Some Unis also have lots of actual "money" that they're able to invest but not spend on day to day activities, so rather than investing in stocks and shares, they invest in accommodation instead. Unis are like charities and local councils, in that they have different "funds" which are ring fenced for different purposes. Just because a Uni has no funds for operations and is making redundancies doesn't mean it has no money - it may well have "ring fenced" funds that can only be used for long term investment to generate investment income, the income being able to be used for day to day spending.

Nottingham is definitely one of them, I know people who work there. Used to be much better and have a far better reputation than it does now, it's still a Russell Group but even Loughborough and Nottingham Trent outrank it these days in terms of actual results and satisfaction.

I was surprised when I re-entered the HE scene (DC looking to go) to see how highly ranked Loughborough was. I am sure in my day it was one of those lower ranked institutions with a respected niche discipline - sports science.

Can I just say at least two of those (these are just the ones I have connections to) will say that while they may be making redundancies, etc they are being proactive and are in no danger of going bust due to the steps they’re taking. And appear positive about the future.

Obviously being in a position where they’re not having to make redundancies/cut costs would be better. But I think most HEIs will be doing so if they haven’t done already and maybe the earlier ones will be in a better position as they acted quickly.

i am fearful of names being mentioned as then if there is unfounded gossip about a particular university people won’t go and then they will go bust!

I think they can often make as much/more money from the accommodation than tuition fees. Certainly more profitable. I joke my local uni is a student accommodation business which dabbles in education on the side!

What do you mean by ‘actual results?’ As for student satisfaction, if you want to send your DC to Bolton or Wrexham University because it takes highly for student satisfaction, knock yourself out.

Totally, student satisfaction does not necessarily equal a robust course or a decent education.

Some students might be unhappy with not much teaching or assessment but I suspect there would be plenty who would be delighted and rate the course highly as long as they got a good grade/degree classification at the end. Whereas if there was a lot of teaching and decent assessment, weaker students may well rate the course poorly. 🤷‍♀️

Are you a governor? Generally only they know.

This surprises me. Durham has been expanding constantly over the last few years.

Newcastle is having to tighten its belt and in danger of going into deficit

Newcastle University faces £35m blackhole as international student numbers fall

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-university-35m-international-students-30023341#ICID=AndroidChronicleNewsAppAppShare

Really, I thought universities have to publish their annual accounts? Including information regarding student figures, etc. I can certainly find my institution’s information via Google. Universities also tend to have all staff meetings where financial projections are discussed. 🤷‍♀️. Of course they’re only projections but at my place it all seems a thorough and comprehensive disclosure and everyone can attend from the admin staff, to the academics.

Governors certainly know more than is disclosed at my "prestigious" university.