University fees about to increase

[Onemorestepintheworld]

An announcement is expected today. www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c0qdgndz5wzt Any bets? I reckon £12k pa

Totally agree, even with small increases, it’s still tough for students to manage with current loan levels. A balanced approach with maintenance loan increases would make a real difference in helping students focus on their studies without the added financial stress.

Scotland need to start paying. Wtf should the English subsidise them.

Maybe controversial but I think some unis should be allowed to go bust. It’s become purely a business. The fees are too much.

My faculty loses £4k for every home student so this will help but not much.

What's the thinking behind decreasing the foundation years. (I've no opinion on it, just curious why). Thanks

Access course fees are capped at £4k less than uni foundation years and the last Gov argued that both were the same in that they acted as a preparatory year for uni and it was difficult to justify differential charging. Current Gov simply confirmed it to go ahead.

The University fees tripled just before my 2 DC (very close in age) went in the early 2010s, from £3000 a year to £9000 a year. So cry me a river.

Really disappointed that the government has raised tuition fees for students. They are in enough debt as it is.
I also think students, parents and society in general needs to consider how many students need to spend 3 years full-time at university when some could study whilst working for a degree/workplace qualification instead.
I also believe UK universities need to make substantial cut backs rather than expecting students to get into more debt.

If you look at the House of Commons report on Education around the world, we spend the third most per student (combined private and public costs) of any OECD country and we have the highest tuition fees in the world.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9840/CBP-9840.pdf
At the same time, although we have good outcomes for students (better than the OECD average) we are not the best in terms of earning premium and job prospects compared to other countries e.g. Germany. So although the cost per student is less in some of these other countries, they are achieving better outcomes. They also have a higher student to staff ratio so this is probably why it is cheaper. However, despite the lower student to staff ratio in the UK, students in the UK are not receiving many hours of tuition.
On all tertiary, excluding R&D, we spend 23,840 USD compared to the OECD average of 12693 USD. We are spending double the amount of any EU country. Only the USA and Luxembourg spend more.
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/total-expenditure-on-educational-institutions-per-full-time-equivalent-student-2020_48d444d4-en

Education in Scotland is devolved and the Scottish government has decided to fund Scottish students from their budget. Plenty of people in Scotland pay more tax than they would pay in England. On the whole we get dragged into crap decided by the RUK leave our education alone. Don’t want to pay tuition fees sort out Westminster.

The funding model for higher education in Scotland comes with a whole other set of problems not least limited places for Scottish students which could at some point see the introduction of tuition fees - but stop blaming Scot’s and bitterness from sorting out your problems.

Am I right in reading that the plan is to make 2 year accelerated degrees the same cost as a 3 year degree?

So course fees go up to around 14k a year - but you save on maintenance?

That's already the case. Very few opt for them! Not good pedagogically for 18 year olds.

I am very surprised that the increase was so small as it will barely cover the jump in National Insurance costs. They will have to increase year on year which isn’t a great political move and the sector won’t be happy unless reform includes attracting international students again. I’m quite puzzled by this.

There was some murmuring about uni reform. No doubt some consultation followed by long grass. We have a bloated system and need it to be streamlined.

Students owe taxpayers £230 billion and it’s going up. 40 year loans will ensure more pay the loans off but students must now think whether a degree is worth it due to this payback time.

We don’t need 2 year degrees. We need 2 year HND style qualifications just below degree level. Hopefully allied to employment so DC are learning and working. Apprenticeships are too complicated. We need a simpler employer/student/uni/college relationship. Some unis should specialise and stop offering a broad range of subjects.

@TizerorFizz completely agree as this is what I did, although at the end of the HND you had the choice to continue to degree level, all day release at college over 6 years and paid for by my employer with modules specific to the industry you worked in.
However, are the industries there today that would support this? We've lost so many manufacturing etc.

So they have announced a similar small increase to the maintenance loans. It isn’t going to make university affordable for everyone.
I assume this circa 3% increase in fees and loans will become an annual reality.

I also believe UK universities need to make substantial cut backs rather than expecting students to get into more debt.

Universities have already made substantial cut backs. What else can be cut?

It's important that universities can still offer a good student experience and can support students while they are studying.

Is uni still worth it ? The timeline of graduating, building a career, home, family, and personal pension (which you don't need to do if you get the c26% public sector pension which is not considered when we look at public sector pay) with current levels of personal taxation (plus an extra 9% above £25,000 for 40 years to repay student debt) make life very challenging for young people who burden themselves with £40 - 50,000 of debt for a degree of limited use. And we wonder why the birth rate has fallen to 1.4 - young people can't afford anything.

@Bigfatsquirrel You are right about the value of pensions! We have very skewed views on who generates wealth and productivity to keep the state functioning. Is it worth it? For the 20% who do not get graduate jobs - no. Clearly not. They would cost the state far less if they did not go. They don’t earn enough to pay the loans back and they would have been better off working and studying. I hope students do try and evaluate value for money. Other DC should ensure they get decent job outcomes and then should feel it was worthwhile.

@Neversaygoodbye I did a HNC too and then professional qualifications. I think far more young people would benefit from this route.

@SerenityNowSerenityNow The unis can always cut back. Some could close. Are two needed in Lincoln for example? Should a few London ones specialise or offer HND/C style courses as well. They run foundation years at below degree level so why not job related courses below degree level? It just needs better planning and change to meet the needs of fewer students but giving higher quality. Mergers would seem sensible too. Most businesses recognise this saves money. Rationalizing courses could help too. Over 100 unis offering law? It’s not needed.

However, are the industries there today that would support this?

This has always been an issue with education & training. A lot of it should be offered by employers - either directly or by sponsored attendance at educational institutions - but companies are cautious about paying to train employees who may then be poached by other companies that don't pay to train people and can therefore afford to pay higher wages. I think there need to be schemes that allow employers' investment in employee training to be assigned a monetary value that depreciates over time, so that if they move to a different employer within a certain period either they or the new employer has to repay the balance. This would give employers a much stronger incentive to invest in education & training.

Education is one of our most valued exports though and having local universities helps social mobility. If you want only a handful of universities to offer law then guess who gets to study it? Rich overseas students is the answer.

The unis can always cut back. Some could close. Are two needed in Lincoln for example? Should a few London ones specialise or offer HND/C style courses as well. They run foundation years at below degree level so why not job related courses below degree level? It just needs better planning and change to meet the needs of fewer students but giving higher quality. Mergers would seem sensible too. Most businesses recognise this saves money. Rationalizing courses could help too. Over 100 unis offering law? It’s not needed.

Cutting back and closing universities are not the same thing. My question was what can be cut back? Anyone who is working in a university right now will tell you that EVERYTHING has been cut back to the bone. And it is starting have an impact on student experience.
As for rationalising course portfolios- this has been done. It seems to me that universities can't win. Were told to behave like a business which to me includes offering courses that are popular and recruit students (like Law). Then we're told we offer too many law courses.........
We're told to behave like a business yet we have NO control over what we charge for UG fees and are FORCED to charge fees which mean courses are running at a loss. But we're also greedy.

But apparently this can all be solved by 'cutting back' but what else we're supposed to cut back on is unclear.

Perhaps the tuition fees should be greatly reduced, I mean significantly and there should be more favourable loans (with lower interest) that are actually paid back to a greater extent (perhaps you pay back a % of what you owe based on your income).

Raise income tax but on a sliding scale between £12k-50k.

Start charging small (£10) patient fees for the NHS, a cap for chronic diseases. Would stop the ludicrous overuse of GPs for colds etc (antibiotic prescriptions are much higher here than in many other countries, where most patients are charged a small fee - even in socialist countries).

Reduce child care costs to encourage more parents to go back into work.

Perhaps we should have a 'school/nursery' type 'voucher' that parents are free to use as they choose?

Perhaps the tuition fees should be greatly reduced, I mean significantly

Who pays the fees then?

As above - raise income tax across the board in the £12-50k.
Not expecting the NHS to be 'fully funded' by the gov (obviously it's never free but our taxes don't cover it - we have a very low tax burden in the UK, especially low/middle income earners).
Through increased taxes from working parents who at the moment have no incentive to work
I also think there should be a sliding scale on state pension - it can't be right that someone working 2 hours per week over 30 years get the same as someone working FT.
There does need to be a change in the uni market, with reduced courses/unis for sure too.

@devilsadvocate77 are you suggesting we go back to a system where fees are partly paid by the government and the students pay less? You suggested that fees should be reduced but do you mean the amount paid by the student? Or the fees overall?

The biggest issue is that the current fee level doesn't cover the cost to run a degree course. Universities make a loss on every UG student .