Industrial placements

[BlueskyBluesea]

How are your DC getting on with arranging these? It seems like every placement is so competitive and really it is very lucky if a student is able to organise a placement that is relevant to their degree. Or do you have a son or daughter that found and completed a placement ....any advice gratefully appreciated ☺️

@cyclingmum67 that's really rough. If it's any consolation my DD is a year ahead (having done a placement year albeit a shit one) and finding graduate job recruitment much better than placement year. Also has found she's having more success than equally able friends this year - thinks it because she had more experience of all these interview stages.

Good luck.

@cyclingmum67 Good luck to your DS! it's well worth it in the end.

@PearlStork The whole application process experience puts them well ahead of the game whether they got a placement or not.

@TizerorFizz - I'm not disagreeing with you (for a change 🙂) - just highlighting some of the financial reality of changing career with no income.

Teaching would be definitely something I would consider.

@NotDonna - my fault, as I went slightly off topic referring to my colleagues who were recently laid off and are facing the recruitment industry hurdles - that's what Tizer was commenting upon

It was. It’s not just young people who are facing difficulties with work. Unfortunately a few will need to be flexible!

Ds still has had no luck at all. He's getting really disheartened.
He's focusing on exams now and considering just going straight into his final year. It's such a shame.

@foghead What area of work? If nothing available, try very hard for summer jobs. Anything is better than nothing.

I agree with Tizer. My DS is starting to apply for summer internships too, as a backup - from doing his research it seems a lot of the firms in his sector haven't opened these yet (presumably they're focusing on placement years first).

Without sounding too pessimistic, I’m wondering if firms are just not taking in students for placement years in such numbers as they did? It could be they get enough good applicants applicants for grad posts so they won’t spend the money on placement students. Are they paying NI contributions too? I don’t know of course but it seems possible.

@TizerorFizz ds is doing mechanical engineering. He's applied everywhere and isn't getting past the first 2-3 stages.

@foghead He might be better off doing the 4 year MEng if he isn’t already. My DH was Civils/structural engineering and they took interns and sometimes placement years. Wrong sort of engineering though. Has he looked at smaller local firms? Although I agree it’s ludicrously time consuming.

He is doing the MEng and was intending to do it over 5 years, with a placement year. I'm wondering if he has a better chance doing it after year3.

@foghead If the uni allows that. He should ask. Is it worth doing 5 years? His degree should make him employable and the year out is not vital. Most someone but still get jobs.

The annual High Fliers research report gives good (albeit backwarding looking) data on the grad recruitment market at the top end.

Notwithstanding oscillations by sector and the Covid dip and recovery, grad recruitment has been gently on the rise. Obviously current placement recruitment is aimed (ultimately) at Sep 26 or Sep 27 entry into a permanent role and recruiters might be cutting back places on offer but I think what we are seeing is simply growing applicant demand exceeding fairly inelastic supply of placement places. The High Fliers research bears that out.

More widely, typical offers for Economics, CompSci and Engineering at high tariff unis have been tweaked upwards and/or additional entrance tests imposed as demand for those courses has risen. Entries for A level CompSci, Economics and Further Maths have also been on the rise.

So the big picture is that more prospective students are choosing courses, and applying for placements, that they think will improve employability and earnings, all in a backdrop of students and parents being aware of cumulative costs associated with uni.

There isn't an easy answer but proactivity and early engagement/research are even more important now. With regards overall time spent on the process, 'more' is not necessarily better; thinking strategically and identifying less well promoted opportunities and being geographically flexible can help.

The best opportunities are not necessarily in a London skyscraper. The reality is many worthwhile corporate placements can be found in a bland office complex on the edge of a conurbation, in a plant on an uninspiring industrial estate or in a mega warehouse just off a motorway junction - all of which, it could be argued, suggests a first time pass of the driving test in sixth form might be more valuable than that extra Astar. Food for thought.

The reality is many worthwhile corporate placements can be found in a bland office complex on the edge of a conurbation, in a plant on an uninspiring industrial estate or in a mega warehouse just off a motorway junction

Yes, DS has applied for quite a number who are located in the M4 corridor between Heathrow and Reading.

Well most engineers are not in London skyscrapers! Engineering is not all identical either. Some branches of engineering pay more than others due to scarcity of decent grads.

I totally agree flexibility is key. Definitely look beyond household names. Not all dc have access to a car though! That’s quite an elite position to be in at 20. This is an issue though. How do poorer DC get a placement they can actually get to?

I do think the whole placement year needs far more transparency. Prospective students tend to believe the courses have links with employers and everyone gets a position. It’s a wake up call to see the effort that has to go in and then nothing. As the vast majority of MEng grads are employable I’d just get going for grad employment with some work experience in the bag. A year isn’t necessary. Getting in the workforce more quickly means DC qualified more quickly. More money - more quickly! In Engineering, not getting a year out isn’t a back step. It can be more than ok in the long run.

Yes, MechEng placements are going to be thin on the ground in the City, Tizer, but you get my broader point.

I absolutely agree that lack of access to a car, and affordable car insurance, is potentially yet another barrier for less well resourced students and families; the same can be said for the high price of London accommodation for 'out-of-region' students considering year long placements which often are offered at lower salaries than the starting salaries for full time roles, making the economics very challenging.

In that sense, placements may unwittingly entrench socio-economic and regional privilege.

@PerpetualOptimist I think in some ways they do. Relying on parents quite a lot is a necessity.

Yes - a bit of irony not lost on you though!

PerpetualOptimist · Today 11:15

The annual High Fliers research report gives good (albeit backwarding looking) data on the grad recruitment market at the top end.
Notwithstanding oscillations by sector and the Covid dip and recovery, grad recruitment has been gently on the rise.

In the most recent High Fliers report, graduate recruitment is steadily falling. Instead of the predicted rise in graduate vacancies of 6.3%, the number of graduates recruited in 2023 actually fell by 6.4% year-on-year. There has been a further reduction in graduate vacancies in 2024.

As of October 2024, employers are seeing an average of 140 applicants per graduate job – a 60 per cent increase compared to the previous year,

That is interesting @AquaLeader ; grad vacancies did fall in 2023, though from an all time high in 2022 (as recorded by High Fliers) and, despite the fall, remained higher than a decade previously (basis of my point about the long term trend).

The most recent High Fliers report (2024) indicated that recruiters anticipated vacancies would rise slightly (+1.5% yoy) in 2024 but you are flagging, I think, that the actual outcome has been a further fall and that the rise in applications per vacancy has shot up at an even greater rate than reported in early 2024 by High Fliers (60% vs 27%). That would indicate a much more negative situation. I would be interested in understanding more about your data source but appreciate you may not be able to share.

This totally depends when the research was done. Post budget Autumn 2024; employers are possibly scaling back.

The truth is not all grad jobs have 140 applicants. Some will have significantly more. Some way less. Maths teaching jobs next to nothing. It’s almost certainly an indicator that we have way too many grads in some areas (eg law) and nowhere near enough in other disciplines, eg maths and some engineering. Some subjects take off, like psychology and CS, but there are not enough jobs for all. This could change of course but some degrees need a caution attached regarding employment prospects. I think we send 37% of 18 year olds to uni but I think around 20% are disappointed with the employment prospects afterwards.

High flyers is limited research. High flying grads and companies only. There’s another world of grad employment they don’t research but can provide a very decent career. Under the research radar though.

The Institute of Student Employers reported a rise in competition for graduate jobs, with an average of 140 applications per vacancy -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/jobs/inside-hellish-jobs-market-applicants-face-140-1-odds/

However, recent AI developments have reduced the drudgery of completing applications and allowed graduates to apply for more roles.

The High Fliers 2025 report will be released shortly and should give an overview of the 2024 graduate market.

However, recent AI developments have reduced the drudgery of completing applications and allowed graduates to apply for more roles

Counterbalance by the AI developments that enable applications to be rejected within 1 hour of submission, due to not containing a specific keyword

@cyclingmum67, ATS (applicant tracking system) systems scanning for specific keywords have been around for some time and are not a recent development. Simple keyword matching is not artificial intelligence.

Small companies might actually read the application.