Durham - insights needed!

[orangepeppersalt]

Hi all,

DS finalising uni choices right now. He's trying for Cambridge - he's pretty academic, loves his subject, and predicted 4 a-stars - but fully aware he's one among many! If Cambridge doesn't happen he's got a shortlist of a few others he's visited and likes - but struggling with a fifth choice...

Durham is ranked very highly for his subject, and while all the other possible choices have average offers of AAB, Durham seems more along the lines of Oxbridge, with average offers being Astar AA.

For some reason, DS thinks that Durham isn't worth considering. I think someone said something disparaging about it being dull and it's put him off. My DH isn't helping - he went to a Northern uni and has a negative view...

Obviously, it's up to DS where he applies, but I think, given Durham's academic reputation (and the fact that he is a strong candidate for higher grades), that he should at least think about it properly. Can anyone offer any insight as to how much I should encourage him, or why he might think this? Thanks so much.

“If your dc want huge shopping centres and loads of concerts and performances then yes Durham is dull.”

Is it my imagination or is this post a bit snobbish?

Last time I looked the major cities like Birmingham, London, Manchester, Glasgow offered a bit more besides gigs and shopping opportunities.

World class art galleries and museums, live sport, festivals, exhibitions, theatre, as well as historical attractions etc.

Some aren’t bothered to be living somewhere offering all this, and some are. Best not to minimise all that the larger UK cities offer though.

It amazes me how people (who aren’t at Durham) have such strong views about it! @Lanzar is your dc at Durham? If not you have an awful lot of opinions formed from one open day. Basically go to Durham if you like it don’t go if you don’t it really is as simple as that.

my dd as I’ve said before is a second year at a Bailey college. She’s state educated, 1st gen and all that malarkey. Yes in freshers she had some comments from boys at one college (not hers) but otherwise has had a fab experience and loves it.

I have another child at Manchester who is also very happy - but Manchester (and all the RG) also has very many from privileged backgrounds- it’s not just Durham!

I don’t get why people invest so much energy in explaining why Durham is so awful - surely you just don’t apply - it’s not like there aren’t other options! We visited a couple of unis which whilst they looked great on paper the various dc detested but also know other people who are happy there. Isn’t it just different people like different things - which is fine. No one would start endless threads about why Southampton, Bath, Warwick wherever were such awful dull places after all …

I don’t think it’s snobbish, it’s a fact about Durham! My younger DS commented on how few chain shops were there when we visited DS so it wouldnt be for him whereas DS there dislikes shopping so not a problem for him. A concern for my DS going there was the lack of decent music venues to see bands when they are on tour, Durham is just not going to be on their venue list! If you want to go somewhere with those things on your door step plus all the wonderful things you have mentioned, Durham doesn’t have them. However they are a very easy train ride away so it can be seen as the best of both, or not as the case clearly is on here, it’s seems a lot of people hate that idea!

Spot on! 😊

My DS is at Durham he and we aren’t super posh and like your DS he was predicted all A*’s.

He has had the most fantastic time there and the majority of his friends aren’t super posh either.

The College system at Durham is great so they have opportunities to play sport and take part in societies and sports at College and Uni level. There are about 17 or 18 Colleges all with different subsidised bars and all the bars are different. They all go around the different bars and seem to know and have lots of friends through course, sports and societies and through housemates. It seems a very friendly place and they all seem to look out for one another. Although admittedly housing pressures in subsequent years is far from ideal.

Let your young person decide. As they will end up living and studying wherever they decide for three years.

How is that snobby?

Performances covers a lot and also I did pick the things about big cities that most of the students I know have in mind. The "gigs", big shops, clubs are the things they want most, less so galleries and museums.

Ok I thought “huge shopping centres” was a bit sneery but happy to be corrected.

Plenty of students IME want galleries, museums, exhibitions, live sports. Horses for courses.

Well I do hate big shopping centres but not for reasons of snobbery!

My DD is an Oxbridge reject, currently at Durham. She seems to have been having a whale of a time, and keeps very busy - she tries out at least one new club each term, and loves that when she walks around town she's constantly bumping into people she knows. We live rurally, so I guess she's used to the knowing everyone thing, but loves the added plus of being able to walk to shops and lectures now (everything is a drive away where we live), I think she sees it as the best of both workds. I think Durham is a beautiful city, but having been up a few times now, I think I'd have found it a bit parochial.

But DC have their ideas, and TBH, often the opinion of a friend, or a throwaway comment a teacher may have made is going to have more bearing on their decisions that a parent's research. DD had Warwick as her second choice (my alma mater - I was rejected by Durham back in the day, so I'm going to say always competitive lol!), and really disliked it (to the point she said if she didn't get her grades for Durham, she'd reject Warwick too and try elsewhere). They need to come to their own conclusions.

'It amazes me how people (who aren’t at Durham) have such strong views about it! is your dc at Durham? If not you have an awful lot of opinions formed from one open day.'

But thats exactly what your DCs did on concluding that they detested some other unis on open day? Are others DCs not allowed to form an opinion that way?

As it happens I have plenty of first hand experience of Durham over many years - I only mentioned the open days as the visual contrast in lack of diversity was stark to my eyes and my DC - maybe others can't see this. I also noted the views of PP who has worked there and can confirm that its reputation precedes it. I dont invest energy explaining why Durham is awful - I am replying to the OP who raised the issue - and my experience and opinion are as valid as others which the OP can take or leave. I have discussed with my DC to consider looking past some of the compromises for them (small, posh, dull, lack of diversity) and consider the clear advantages of quality teaching, facilities, sport, societies and employer reputation and that being forewarned is forearmed and that they will find their tribe though they are not particularly inspired as yet.

@Lanzar i think the major difference is my dc (and I) recognise these as just their opinions (and am not writing them on Mumsnet) whereas you’re presenting your opinions as facts maybe? Small it is in comparison with say Manchester. Posh? Well that’s a loaded and judgemental comment if ever there was one! Dull? How do you define dull?

I would also say that threads like these only serve to prevent a wider variety of applicants from applying - my dd was told by many that it wouldn’t be here kind of place (funnily enough mainly by those who had been privately educated).

Anyway as you were ….

I find it bizarre that anyone would have such strong views if they havnt had any experience of their child actually going there, you can’t tell anything from an open day or past views of people who have worked there of a university that has changed and is working hard to do so. We didn’t detest anywhere we looked around, we could see pros and cons in all, I wouldn’t be making any opinions on insights needed for somewhere I’d only seen for an open day, it just isn’t helpful or in any way an accurate point of view. It’s posts like this that would have put me off looking last year.

'Anyway as you were ….'

Really?

'We didn’t detest anywhere we looked around'

Neither did we - that was @KittyMcKitty's language / experience of other Unis.

Our DC’s choices will come down to personal preferences based likely on a mix of subjective and objective factors. Some may not even consider objective elements such is their strong visceral reaction to a place/people and that is understandable.

My Dd wasn’t keen on going to Durham for a number of reasons and while I appreciated that they’re reputationally good for her course I didn’t want to push her toward it as I was more concerned that she should be happy. I also felt it was small and parochial compared to other places that we’ve lived but didn’t express that view to her as I felt that she could figure that out for herself from our visit and give appropriate weighting to that factor.

In the end, we told her to start the course, see how she she got on and if she couldn’t bear to be there she could leave.

So far it’s going well for her, it’s early days but I think one important thing is that she gets on well with her housemates. Had they been stuffy it might have been a totally different story. She is also very enthusiastic about her course which she says is quite intense but enjoyable.

It won’t be right for everyone and I totally get that.

You have made multiple negative observations from what others have told you and one single open day, that really isn’t a true reflection of an experience. It’s fine that you didn’t like it and to say you didnt but to make multiple comments on a thread putting people off or worrying others with no real basis isn’t fair or helpful for anyone.

@Catmum90 - but @Lanzar says she does have firsthand experience. It’s her and her DC’s opinion after all and anyone reading the thread will see there’s a range of opinions on Durham. It’s for the individual to go visit, keeping an open mind, to determine for themselves if it suits.

@Catmum90 but to make multiple comments on a thread putting people off or worrying others with no real basis isn’t fair or helpful for anyone

Last time I looked Mumsnet was for Mums (and the occasional Dad), not for our offspring.

Personally, I didn't try to influence my own DC when they chose their universities (hated Bristol btw) - they're the one's who will be living in their university town/city for 3/4 years so need to make their own minds up.

Objectively Durham is small - very small town centre for a uni town and some students find it claustrophobic. Very little privacy eg if you are on a first date etc, likely multiple people who you know will see you. Some people don’t mind that and some do. It’s also objectively posh - 38% iirc independent school is a lot and some students don’t like that. Some love it/don’t mind.

It is a great uni in a beautiful place, with a lot of very good teaching, but it’s fair enough that it isn’t for everyone and I think open days can give a helpful glimpse. If people decide it’s not for them that’s fine - plenty of other places for them and Durham is never undersubscribed, after all.

Dd did 2 years at Durham. Awful, awful place for her. For many reasons I can explain by PM. She did history. Now at a different uni and absolutely loves it and says there is a world of difference. Durham itself is gorgeous but small and the nightlife is very limited. Accommodation is also horrendously expensive, and the house dd had in her second year, was vile. Damp, mouldy, freezing and £202 a week for 51 weeks.

A few of her friends went with her from 6th form. 2 love it, 2 tolerate it, 1 left in the first term, 1 had a severe issues similar to dd and left at the end of 1st year.

It is (according to dd) full of ex public school boys who think the female students, especially working class ones, are there just to be harassed and assaulted. The working class male students aren't much better. This according to dd who is a very sweet, kind girl.

Sorry to hear it was so awful for your Dd @HighlandCowbag and good to hear she’s thriving where she is now.

Like other unis, it will not suit everyone.

Dd, is in first year there, home just now for Easter. Almost didn’t go but we encouraged her to try it with the option of withdrawing if she didn’t like it.

Fortunately, she’s in accommodation with a lovely set of flatmates of mixed backgrounds and will share a house with three of them next year paying £145 pw including bills.

Perhaps largely because of her course and her halls she’s not encountered these brash public school males that people speak of.

people really need to go and get a feel of the place for themselves and although a one day visit offers a limited snapshot I think most people will probably determine very quickly if it’s a yes or a no.

Just saw that this chat continued and thought I'd update. DS actually received an offer from Cambridge in the end, and didn't include Durham as one of his five choices....but I hope all the insight continues to be useful for those who have DC considering Durham as a potential uni choice!