Durham - insights needed!

[orangepeppersalt]

Hi all,

DS finalising uni choices right now. He's trying for Cambridge - he's pretty academic, loves his subject, and predicted 4 a-stars - but fully aware he's one among many! If Cambridge doesn't happen he's got a shortlist of a few others he's visited and likes - but struggling with a fifth choice...

Durham is ranked very highly for his subject, and while all the other possible choices have average offers of AAB, Durham seems more along the lines of Oxbridge, with average offers being Astar AA.

For some reason, DS thinks that Durham isn't worth considering. I think someone said something disparaging about it being dull and it's put him off. My DH isn't helping - he went to a Northern uni and has a negative view...

Obviously, it's up to DS where he applies, but I think, given Durham's academic reputation (and the fact that he is a strong candidate for higher grades), that he should at least think about it properly. Can anyone offer any insight as to how much I should encourage him, or why he might think this? Thanks so much.

Bear in mind Durham offers can be more stringent than Oxbridge. You can decide to add Durham after your DC knows if they have an Oxbrisge interview etc. DD got an offer from Cambridge and Durham but couldn’t use the Durham offer as the Cambridge offer was A star A A with any subject for the A star but Durham specified which subject so Durham was a stricter offer so couldn’t be used as an insurance. In hindsight it was a wasted option and maybe would have only put it if she knew she had no Cambridge interview.

My DD has just started and seems to be having a whale of a time - formals, meeting people, joining clubs. We took her a few weeks ago and is a beautiful city albeit cold. Really like the College system as seems to give a real sense of community an unity. Is abit of a long way for people down South (we have recently moved North and DD said she wouldn't have applied if we were still near Reading).

I think @DurhamMumma sums it up quite nicely. Ds was rejected from Cambridge after interview and a few other MNetter's children ended up at Durham too in different subjects. It feels almost like Oxbridge with the colleges although no tutorials in them just where you live, each one has its own bar, motto, games etc. There are some shared rooms, rowing, old and historic town, I mean some lucky students do get to live in the Castle. Plus gowned formals for some colleges too. Definitely worth at least considering.

@PettsWoodParadise Ds's Cambridge entry was A star A star A and Durham was A star AA so less grades wise. It isn't always a wasted application, it depends on the course. Unlucky for your Dd though.

I read Geography and looking at the course details online it hasn't changed much. I'd say it's quite "pure geography" compared to other universities which have a wider range of departments. I had friends on my Masters course with Geography degrees from elsewhere who'd done much more variety of modules such as ecology and environmental planning type themes. The style of teaching compared to where I did my masters was world's apart - very much some stands at the front of the lecture room and talks for an hour and it's up to you to take notes and do the reading around the subject afterwards, whereas my MSc was a lot more "spoon fed" with course hand outs, notes etc. It was quite theoretical too with not much practical work.

My dd is a second year at Durham. Her course asks for AAB she has 2 x A stars and an A which she feels is fairly average for the course.

She didn’t apply to Oxbridge - no interest, is state educated, left wing, 1st generation and gay - so not what the media portrays as a typical Durham student. She loves it - she’s in a Bailey college and she loves her college. The night life whilst it’s not for eg Manchester is lively and varied. She loves that it’s small and everyone knows everyone (she is at the smallest college). It has been perfect for her. She has had the “where did you go to school” question but has always felt that just reflects poorly on those who ask those sort of questions. As others have said there is a certain group but they keep themselves somewhat separate anyway.

Durham and College have been very proactive with dealing with any form of discriminatory behaviour and come down quite hard.

She feels safe everywhere in the city. People in her in the past have talked about the locals not liking students but she has not found this to be the case - people say you wouldn’t walk down certain roads on a Saturday- she has (it’s her route home) and there is no issue.

she is from the South East as are many of her friends - she has heard people from another college being classist and mocking northerners but they are a small minority.

I think you either love or hate Durham - similar to most unis but Durham does seem to be more polarising.

My DS has just started doing BA geography. He did not apply to Oxbridge and hopes ( but realises it is difficult) to get either a placement year or year abroad. He is from a state comp and so far loves it- but probably too early to give proper feedback on the course. He had offers from Exeter Birmingham Edinburgh and Leeds. In the end be liked the course most and the colleges - not really for the Oxbridge lite type things- but more the ease of making friends with people from other courses in a college with meals/ bar/ sports teams etc. also the opportunity to get involved in lots of activities without having to be university level standard. That said- It has to be their choice in the end ( it probably would not have been mine) and often it comes down to little more than a gut feeling. There are lots of good courses out there.

Thanks so much again everyone - all very insightful x

I'm from near Durham originally, and can tell you that there could be nowhere in the country with a bigger town/gown divide. That was true 30 years ago, and (from family still in the area) is if anything even more true today. The student body - as an amorphous whole, there will of course be exceptions, but this is what the town sees - is the deadly combination of both posher and dumber than Oxbridge, and not surprisingly that rubs people from pit towns up the wrong way.

The cathedral is nice.

My DD is at Durham and is having the time of her life. I don’t recognise any of the characterisation. It’s beautiful with masses going on - something for everyone and a culture of participating and trying things out. The college system is great for settling in quickly and finding friends. She is not at all posh and not white and she has made friends for life from all kinds of backgrounds. Yes there are private school kids but everyone she knows is lovely and she has not encountered any kind of behaviour which has made her feel at all uncomfortable - in fact she feels incredibly safe and the colleges are really good at making them feel they supported and cared for. It’s not dull from her perspective and she parties a lot both in Durham and in Newcastle. She has tried new sports and activities and overall I feel like you get really good value for money.
The pre admin is awful but once you there it feels pretty organised and very focused on quality and support.
its not for everyone I’m sure but for her it’s been wonderful and as I say does not reflect at all some of the things she hears said about it!
i think important to go have a look- she feel in love with it when visited, some of her friends from school did not..
hope that helps

Yes @Rhinoc, I remember the taxi driver telling us how barely any people genuinely from the area can rent or even buy houses/flats etc in Durham itself as the estate agents/landlords have a monopoly. And that was 3 years ago - I believe it’s worse now.

Also on subject of rentals, they nearly all seemed to be bills included which did make it easier for them to manage their money but didn’t give them much chance to develop budgeting skills (though many will probably never have to budget!)

Mine definitely has to budget as I’m sure many many students in Durham also have to.. Estate agents are total sharks but there is enough accommodation to go around and prices come down later in the year.. but there is pressure to sign up to a house early as agents make them feel they will miss out. I have heard same problem in many other unis.

That's a good point on housing availability and prices increasing the town/gown divide in Durham more than anywhere else, even without the boarding school behaviour. Oxford and Cambridge are both 3x the population of Durham, have fewer students, and almost all undergraduates are housed in college throughout, so not taking up local housing stock. Durham locals have a lot more to deal with, especially as (again unlike Oxbridge) student numbers have increased over the past few decades.

Your DS needs to visit. DS was keen but his friend plumped for Newcastle as first choice instead, neither would countenance London. What has drawn your DS to his other three choices? If it's big city then it's understandable but if he has St Andrews for example then where is he drawing the distinction? DS chose not to apply to O or C and knows some who did but plenty who did not.

As part of the you can choose a module from any faculty in the first year, DS got to study the climate change module in geography. He really enjoyed it (not having studied geography A level) and did well.

DS has made most friendships through college sport. The town and gown comments are interesting as he also plays for the town hockey club and that's worked fantastically well, including curry nights etc.

If he wants to avoid the rugby set then generally he would be well advised to opt for self-catering. Most people who put that down get it. DS enjoys a night out going round the college bars and into the town but is not party enough to have ever bothered to go into Newcastle for a big club night out.

In summary, DS is having a blast, would recommend Durham and not say it was dull. Like everywhere else it is what you choose to make it.

To give some context as to what he is after, might share his other choices?

I’ll add my two cents @orangepeppersalt. Dd just started there and I nearly thought she was going to decline her place at the last minute (there’s a thread).

She had reservations too about the smallness and dullness of the place and just didn’t feel as excited about it as Manchester which she really liked as a city but she was conflicted because the Durham law course is well regarded.

She has excellent grades and probably would have benefited from a gap year and reapplying to other unis but her heart wasn’t in that.

So off she went and we were concerned at how unexcited she seemed but 2 weeks in and she has made lots of friends, has done all the clubs in town and is enjoying John Snow college.

It’s still early days but I think she’s been surprised at how much she likes it. I think the college environment has helped and people seem to have bonded well. I think there are 3 of them out of 12 in her flat that went to independent schools.

I’d recommend your Ds checking it out for himself, it’s worth having a look. Good luck!

I also think this is spot on ao far. DS1 only in his first year but this rings all very true. He says he had met a huge mix of people, including lots of international students. He absolutely loves ot and although we had heard the stereotypes, they certainly didn't seem true or to affect his experience

I am shocked at how well and how quickly he had settled. He isn't a big drinker or party goer so I doubt that he will care about that so much. He is very sociable though and has found everyone to be very friendly! Loads to get involved with!

Small boring town. Lots of posh kids.

@HeavyMetalMaiden Is that from a position of being a resident or having studied there?

Durham is not dull at all. Its a beautiful city

I agree I don’t think Durham is dull at all. There is masses going on for students and it’s very accessible. It’s not for those looking for big city life but it definitely isn’t boring. My DD grew up in London and has had access to all the big night life it offers but to be honest is much busier and engaged in Durham.. there is so much negativity out there about Durham which I find really odd as from our perspective it’s a great place..

One of my nephews went to Durham. He's quite a nerdy scientist and thought he liked the idea of living in a small town but he found it parochial and claustrophobic.

@DurhamMumma someone mentioned to me 'Doxbridge' the other day - guess it is a thing!
OP is it surprising that many at Durham are Oxbridge rejects? If you are applying for the very top unis in the country then there are about six or seven to chose from, depending on subject, so very likely if You've applied to Durham you've also applied to Oxbridge.
My DD is there now in one of the more traditional Bailey colleges. She said no one has asked her yet if she is an Oxbridge reject, or what school she went to, so they don't know if she went to a private one or not.
As for the nightlife? Clubs may be lacking but is that the extent of nightlife? The college bars seem busy and there are loads of societies and clubs.
Why does one go to uni? To go clubbing? To get an excellent degree? To grow as an independent person?
There are unis in big cities and small, and Durham is in the smaller side. But my DD (who otherwise lives in London) loves that. A poke around a few charity shops and lovely walks along the river - not that she's had much time to indulge in either with the course load and society activities!
He should go to an open day. It's hard to judge by reputation or online. My DD didn't like Bristol or Exeter on visiting - the latter seemed a good fit on paper. But if he's adamant about Durham there are others out there.

Why only 6-7?

My DD is applying and we’re near Reading too. She’s a sucker for a long train journey!!!

I know Durham quite well as I'm a bus ride away in Darlington and use my SCONUL access (Society of College, National and University Libraries) to use the library for my PhD work. I'm based at another university in the region, but Durham is sometimes easier to get to.

Durham is a beautiful little city with stacks of history, a magnificent cathedral, loads of nice eateries, a nightlife (not that I know much about that as I'm about 150 years older than the undergraduate cohort) and loads and loads of hills. The train station is at the top of one of them and Durham University Hospital is at the top of another, something to bear in mind for those training in the medical sciences. The weather isn't always horrible, but nice weather can be deceptive; what looks gorgeous on a beautiful autumn day could plunge someone susceptible to SAD into a crisis if they are there in a bad winter. Those hills going up also go down and Church Street going down to New Elvet into town can feel like a descent into the dark in winter.

The university has expended a lot of energy and resources on expanding student numbers in the past few years, resulting in a frantic rush for accommodation at the beginning of the academic year. Some streets, eg, Church Street, are full of student housing with hardly any local residents at all, which makes them weird and empty during the summer. Durham has a bit of a reputation for Hooray Harrys and Harriets, however, there is extensive provision for free breakfasts during term, so it's apparent that not every student is rocking up with a silver spoon in their mouths. Depending on the college, the atmosphere might not be as insular and complacent as Durham's reputation suggests.

A recent novel, Cuddy, by Benjamin Myers, offer a taste of Durham's long, rich history, including a glimpse into the work done at the Cathedral and the Shrine of St Cuthbert. It's a good read in its own right and it's full of history and character. I listened to the audiobook and wanted to get on the next bus for a fat scone in the Undercroft Cafe😋

If the college structure really appeals, your DS could consider the University of York. It's also a Russell Group University, with a huge campus on the outskirts of the city and my DH, who is based there for his PhD loves it. But again, it's worth a visit, ideally when the sun isn't shining.