Durham - insights needed!

[orangepeppersalt]

Hi all,

DS finalising uni choices right now. He's trying for Cambridge - he's pretty academic, loves his subject, and predicted 4 a-stars - but fully aware he's one among many! If Cambridge doesn't happen he's got a shortlist of a few others he's visited and likes - but struggling with a fifth choice...

Durham is ranked very highly for his subject, and while all the other possible choices have average offers of AAB, Durham seems more along the lines of Oxbridge, with average offers being Astar AA.

For some reason, DS thinks that Durham isn't worth considering. I think someone said something disparaging about it being dull and it's put him off. My DH isn't helping - he went to a Northern uni and has a negative view...

Obviously, it's up to DS where he applies, but I think, given Durham's academic reputation (and the fact that he is a strong candidate for higher grades), that he should at least think about it properly. Can anyone offer any insight as to how much I should encourage him, or why he might think this? Thanks so much.

It's not particularly relevant, but in case unclear - I meant that DH has a negative view of Durham as a place, not all Northern unis! He went to Newcastle and loved it.

It does seem that Durham's reputation as really come up over the past few decades - I can't remember it being so competitive 25+ years ago...

In my experience you can’t persuade a y13 to choose a certain uni! They do as they please 😬

Durham has a number of different reputations, such as; it's full of super-posh private-school Oxbridge rejects; it's a beautiful city with World Heritage status; it has an accommodation shortage; it is genuinely world-leading in research; it's a small city with no nightlife. It's probably fair to say that all of these are true to some extent. These factors might be what your DS has heard.

(My DS has Durham on his shortlist, for what it's worth.)

I went to Durham a decade ago and adored it. I’m from a working class background so it was like a whole other world to me, with the formal dinners etc (I went to a very traditional college). There are a lot of Oxbridge rejects, but it’s not really a thing other than the occasional joke.

Durham city is pretty affluent and very pretty and lively, but some of the surrounding areas are quite deprived - there is a significant ‘town versus gown’ divide. I’m from not too far away so was more aware of it than most.

Overall I had the best time. Made friends for life and loved the college life - it’s more supportive than a normal uni halls.

@Elderflower2016 - oh yes, for sure! I wouldn't be persuading him to choose it at all - however, it seems silly for him to disregard it on the basis of very little when it's got such a good reputation. I feel I should at least encourage him to give it more thought...

I went to Durham and tbh it is a small city with not much variety. I remember a lot of fancy dress, which wasn't really my thing. There were about three places we ever went out to.

@PhotoDad - yes, there are a number of factors in there that lead me to think DS should give it more thought. He's not enormously into nightlife so I don't think that's an issue. He has mentioned the super posh thing - but he's at a private school and pretty posh himself in all honesty🙄 He seems to think Durham is another level of aristo/ Rugby types though, which seems a little silly to me....

@louisianachild - glad to hear you had such a good time, and @Strawberrypicnic thanks for insight too!

I went to Durham (although I graduated in 2008) and I loved it!!! Enough nightlife for me (although I am a fan of cheesy pop and fancy dress). But yes lots of posh people, yes lots of oxbridge rejects (ie. Me!!) but the city is beautiful and I wouldn't change my choice if I had my time again.

One odd thing about Durham is that everyone is in a college. Some are way more formal/posh than others (and prices vary a lot too). Although applicants can list a preference order, they might end up in a completely different college (and end up with much higher rent!) and there's nothing they can do about it.

Durham ranks quite highly amongst UK unis for sexual harassment. In 2021, Durham University was ranked sixth in the UK for the number of testimonies received pertaining towards sexual violence. An interesting article about why that may be here: https://www.palatinate.org.uk/is-sexual-assault-at-durham-university-a-product-of-elitism/#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20Durham%20University%20was,support%2C%20and%20hired%20specialist%20investigators.
As you have a DS not a DD, he's less likely to be affected. But not immune, obviously.

Durham was definitely competitive 25 years ago - my course was one of the highest rated in the country behind Oxbridge. As others had said atmosphere varies hugely college to college, and the small city can be a little claustrophobic, but I loved my time there.

Another Durham graduate and i've worked in the city recently and can confirm that student life doesn't seem to have changed much in over 20 years! It's a small city so if he's looking for big city night life then he might find it too quiet. Much of the social scene tends to be based around college life rather than going out in the town. There are more than the fair share of posh students but tbh I think that very much depends which college you pick - the ones in the town are traditionally more public schooley than the ones on the hill.

To be fair to Durham, Zimunya, I'm pretty confident that one reason it ranks for highly in reports of sexual harassment is that it's led the sector in being open about admitting that there is an issue and making it easy for students to report concerns and have them taken seriously. The places that make it hard to report and don't respond very well will have fewer reports, but that does not mean they are doing better.

My DS is at Durham in his third year and loves it.
What he's found:

Most students are Oxbridge rejects. (The crossword the other day had a clue about "Doxbridge", which I'd never heard before!).
Many are from private schools, but not all.
There is definitely a sub-set that are incredibly moneyed - ("they are easy to spot and avoid" - DS's words)
The college system helped him enormously to make friends. He found his tribe very easily.
There is a healthy nightlife it seems - not sure where the idea that it doesn't have one comes from.
It is a small, beautiful city.
Everything is easy to get to on foot, although it is hilly.
It is incredibly safe.
It is pretty cold and rainy most of the time.
His course is incredibly demanding and has taken up most of his free time in the holidays.
Accommodation is hard fought over, but he didn't have too much of a problem getting something in both 2nd and 3rd year.
The university's admin is lacking, especially for those joining (college allocation/reallocation, module selection, etc).
Everyone has their college preferences when applying - and there's no guarantee that they will get it - but 99.9% love their ultimate college allocation.

This is spot-on - my DS graduated from Durham a couple of years ago.

He had a great time there and made loads friends who he still sees a lot of (at least weekly as they are all in London) despite having come from a comp rather than a private/public school! He was able to avoid the most pretentious students (many at certain colleges!)

He would say that the college system is a definite plus as you get to know that smaller group more closely plus it’s another layer of student support. Also the college sports are very active if your DS is sporty!

Also Newcastle is only 15mins away on the train for proper clubbing, shopping, etc

FWIW Durham has always been highly ranked (in general) afaik. I was at Bristol in the 1980s and Durham was the "other place" all the Oxford and Cambridge rejects went - I know that sort of thing is sometimes just chat but in fact I did know a lot of people at my uni who had not got in to Oxford. Nothing wrong with that of course.

Back in the day, you had to rank your uni list, and if you put Bristol or Durham second to anyone other than O and C they rejected you. Allegedly.

Anyway - what is the subject @orangepeppersalt ? or does it make no odds? Has he been for a look? I do think Durham is a very specific sort of place, very small, very beautiful, college system – it's not for everyone. DS went to look and was bowled over by its beauty but deffo could no see himself there for three years.

Durham is small and a bit dull tbh, but also an excellent uni and very traditional. Quite close to Newcastle on the train if he wants more excitement!
He should at least go for a visit before dismissing it

You may well be correct! The article from 2022 that I linked above suggests that reporting is easy but action is neglible, though.

The autor states, "One day, a student in my college group chat sent the message: “have I told you about the posh lads competing on fucking the poorest girl”. I remember how my stomach dropped, and the other members of our group chat reacted with appropriate horror. Later that day, screenshots from the chat were leaked. The phrases ‘can’t get enough since girls don’t put out’, ‘so many people get accused of rape… I’m always worried about it after having sex with a girl’, and ‘snitches get stitches’ swam around on my phone screen...As a young woman about to leave home for the first time, reading these messages was terrifying...Even though the student who wrote most of the messages lost his place, there were still others allowed to a!end the university. I remember being on a night out in second year and recognising one of the boys who had been in the group chat. He was stood in the smoking area, discussing the group chat, laughing it off and claiming it was “bullshit” that himself and others had been “ostracised” and punished for “harmless banter”.
This is precisely my issue with the culture at Durham University. Even when students are admonished for their behaviour, there is little shift in their mindset. "

Wow thank you so much for all the insight! Glad to hear so many people enjoyed it and apologies if I offended any ex-students by suggesting it's become more prestigious in recent years 😅 - I knew it was always highly regarded but I wasn't quite aware that it was seen as 'very nearly Oxbridge' until now. That's totally my own ignorance though!

DS is applying to read geography, so any subject specific thoughts also very much appreciated.

He loves the look of Cambridge and the whole collegiate system, and he is passionate about his subject, so the quality of the teaching will be important to him. Durham seems very similar to Cambridge in so many ways, so I do think he should think about it...

I don't think Durham is "dull" nor particularly "Northern" despite its location. It is the one Russell Group university with the highest proportion of public / independent school undergraduates - almost 40%. Champagne and rowing is probably more the tone, and your kid may, or may not find that dull. When I was an undergrad at a nearby northern university, Durham was known to have a huge proportion of the city's population connected in some way to the university, over 25%. I'm expect that has increased.

I have a dd in second year at Durham. She absolutely love it and is having the time of her life. The college system is terrific and really nurturing.
It’s also a beautiful part of the country, making it lovely to visit too.

My son graduated from Durham in 2006. A group of 6 shared a house together after y1 and they all keep in touch regularly still despite them living all over the world.
They're all meeting up in New York with their wives and children next week for the wedding of the last one to get married

Aww, that’s lovely @Flopsythebunny