So tuition fees are increasing. Will this change your DC’s thoughts on university

[user7654263]

It’s much needed for the sector but with tuition fees increasing and accommodation being eye wateringly expensive will this change your DCs view on university? It’s so expensive and the interest in student loans starts from day one so racks up really quickly.

I feel grateful to have gone in the days of grants but have one at university and one in year 13 and it’s really something you need to evaluate carefully to see whether it’s worth it.

I still suspect it won’t be enough to save the universities that are on the brink of collapse unfortunately.

My dc had already decided he wants to go down the degree apprenticeship route after A levels. I’m supportive of this and hopefully he’ll be successful when it’s time to apply. I detest the student loan system as it is now.

Courses like this

www.bathspa.ac.uk/courses/ug-creative-arts-practice/

What benefit does this actually confer onto the people taking the course?

Plenty of them - you are being incredibly ignorant. Stop embarrassing yourself.

I didn't attend a single lecture during my final year. It was pointless. They weee all recorded to go online and it was easier to just catch up that way. Got a 2:1.

Just think, if you'd actually bothered to attend lectures and engage with staff and other students you might have got a first!

I think it's more because my grandmother died, my dad was incredibly unwell and my mental health was in the gutter :)

Foolish. Interest accrues on it like any other loan and the terms are such that many young people aren't even servicing the interest each year.
The debt grows then 10 or 15 years later when they are finally earning a decent salary and likely have kids and financial responsibilities they are losing a big chunk of money every month tp servicing a debt thats grown to 80, 90k.
Its a scandal waiting to happen.

Think you need to do some research before making entirely unfounded comments:

https://www.rca.ac.uk/more/our-alumni

How many people study an acting degree and then go on to star in films and TV shows? Savings need to be made in the university system just like every other area.

Most graduate level jobs don't ask for a particular degree subject. They want someone who can demonstrate that they are capable of studying at degree level.
Most history graduates don't become historians! It's often about the skills developed rather than the subject content.
A more educated population is good for society as whole!

So, you aren't against art degrees in general, just very specific courses?

In any case, that course looks like it would definitely "actively help" someone who wants to make a career selling arts and crafts on social media, or elswhere.

@Battlerope that's just one example.

I just think getting a degree has become cheapened these days, because you can get one in anything.

I just think getting a degree has become cheapened these days, because you can get one in anything.

This is an utterly ridiculous comment. You can't just get a degree in 'anything'. Just because you don't understand the value of a subject doesn't mean it's worthless.

Tbh, I expected it and from what I can glean it seems to be a £250 per annum increase over 5 years to get to the new amount. Not happy about it but if you’re not going to repay the old amount in an average working lifetime (as many people are experiencing with the capital amount owed growing rather than reducing despite monthly payments), then what does it matter? It’s just robbing Peter to pay Paul and massaging figures. The govt will ultimately be underwriting this and then writing off the (larger) debt in 30 years time. The govt would be better reintroducing a per capita payment direct to universities and have done with it.

I was pleased to see that there is talk of a grant for students of lower income families, up to £3500, being reintroduced… but I wonder how that will be administered and at what cost.

Plus the creative sector adds a lot to the U.K. in GDP and soft power

Yes... I'm a total STEM bod but surely it's obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense how important the 'creative' sector is.
It needs people with training, and creativity doesn't all come out of a void.

@Hatfullofwillow that report you've linked is from 2013 - things have moved on a bit since then.

I think people just misunderstand why things changed but also what it means to get a degree.

Part of the reason why degree education was expanded in the 90s - was because by the 80s most industry has been destroyed in the UK i.e. no more blue collar jobs that trained on the job. In order to train white collar workers - government decided that universities will do that because a lot of those jobs are in medium sized businesses who don't have capacity to train hundreds of 18 year olds.

Clearly once more 18 year olds go to uni - the gap in earnings will drop - however, seeing as most jobs need a degree, it's actually hard not to do one now.

As demonstrated by the shortages in degree apprenticeships - the UK lacks large enterprises willing to invest i.e. train young people. Plus since there is no longer the idea of a job for life - it doesnt pay to train them as they will then leave.

So before people go on about degrees not being worth it or Blair coming up with a silly idea of sending people to uni - have a look at the history of employment, training and education in the UK.

Some of your posts are quite out there

What did you study out of interest?

Great post hgvkm

Just can't believe the ignorance on this thread among some posters. So yes, let’s abandon crafts and craft based skills because that does nothing for the person developing the crafts or for society? Absurd! People really dont understand just what courses are available and fall for the click bait of Harry Potter Studies (mind you, that is a major export). University level study is about developing ovent, literate, ressoned and systematic thinkers - transferable skills. I think many jobs require that. We are not in the days of carrying out orders while tugging forelocks, thank god.

Also, yes, why do many other countries of comparable status to England manage it without saying - oh actually only the wealthy should go and people should only study a really really narrow set of subjects, which we have historically thought important (even if economy and society are dynamic and crikey, I mean, things like Gaming Studies might actually lead to new economic sectors).

I do think it will make people think more about the value of a degree. And in particular, people will think STEM is better value for the individual student than an arts degree. And that won’t save the unis money, far from it. Most kids at our grammar schools only want to do STEM now.

Or Economics or Law and that is about it!

But little of the money is actually repaid, interest charges and profit to the privatised loans company sees to that,

@iwishihadknownmore clearly a fan of the bigger the lie strategy

Student Loans Company though is not a private company

We are a non-profit making government-owned organisation that administers loans and grants to students in colleges and universities in the UK.
SLC is an executive non-departmental public body, sponsored by the Deparrment for Education

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/student-loans-company/about

and before you dg a deeper hole and bang on about loan sell-offs; consider the value of the sales; the current value of loans, and the period in which those loan sales were made. I can add a link if that helps.

The government estimates that creative industries generated £126bn in gross value added to the economy and employed 2.4 million people in 2022. A range of research is also examining the way in which creative industries and the arts can positively impact wellbeing, for example through public health interventions.

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/contribution-of-the-arts-to-society-and-the-economy/

The newer loans aim to recover more for the tax payer. The older loans I think were only paid back as to about 30% so in other words other tax payers funded the student including the 85% of my age who never got the chance to go to university many of whom are still working full time.

As for the fees going up, I would support fewer people going over all. My teacher mother was very good and had 2 years at a residential teacher training college. I really don't think she was a worse teacher to 6 year olds (her year group) because she had Cert Ed and not a degree. She was teaching by aged 19.

My own profession law moved most to graduate entry in about 1979 but it is possible and becoming easier to do apprenticeships to become a solicitor although I think a 3 year LLB and then one year post grad before your 2 years of training is better as you get the 4 years of exams all over with before you move to working.

(Caveat: I believe that whoever pays them, universities need to get a lot more money per student per annum. There should be no university fees in the first place, but if there ARE any, they need to go UP by a good deal.)

My first thought was that if interest rates on student loans were lowered by 1% or even less it wouild probably amply offset the cost to students, but when you ask Google if the government makes any money on student loans, the AI response said no, it loses money on them, even those that are paid back in full because the government itself is borrowing the 20 BILLION (!!!) a year (!!!) to do it and the interest rates IT pays have shot up in the last 5 years.

But surely a more highly educated population is a higher EARNING population and overall, the money is amply repaid though higher income tax?? The UK has an embarrassingly low percentage of young people going to university and graduates overall compared to other developed countries as it is.

It feels like the govenment takes a very short term and non-holistic view to childcare (i.e. nursery should be free to allow women who wish to, to return to full-time work sooner and earn more money) and education and doesn't look at the long term gain to the country as an entity that deserves a high standard of living and happiness - AND to the Exchequer. A highly educated population = lots and lots of lovely income tax cash for Rachel Reeves to spend where it is needed most.

Google AI's response re. whether the govt. makes anything on student loan interest:

No, the government is expected to lose money on student loans, including loans that are paid back in full:

Rising borrowing costs: The cost of borrowing for the government has increased from 1.2% to 4.0% over the past two years.

Interest rates: The interest rate on student loans is set at the rate of RPI inflation.

Unpaid loans: The government is expected to lose money on loans that are not repaid.

Repayment threshold: The government's decision to raise the repayment threshold on student loans issued after 2012 will increase the expected loss.

Other factors that contribute to the government's losses on student loans include:

The government's official measures of the cost of student loans do not reflect the additional cost.

The government has shifted funding for maintenance and teaching to loans, which has led to an increase in the average loan debt and the overall scale of loans.

The Student Loans Company (SLC) is a non-profit making organization that is wholly in public ownership. The shareholders are the Department for Education (DfE) and the Devolved Administrations of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland (DAs).

My DC is weighing up what to do in the future. Originally thinking of applying to Scottish University and/or doing a language degree with a year abroad. The increasing level of debt does make me think they may need to rethink and do a 3 year degree if indeed they do one at all.