DD's girlfriend lying about her degree result

[WhitePolarBear]

DD (22) just graduated and is applying for jobs. Has been updating her LinkedIn profile etc. She worked so hard at uni and was delighted to get a First Class degree, which she has put on her education section.

DD's girlfriend 'Jen'* of 2 years (who we've met, had to stay etc and had become quite fond of...) has also set up her profile, but has listed her degree result as a 'First' when actually she got a (still very good) 2:1.
When DD casually mentioned it, Jen laughed it off and said 'everyone lies on their profiles and CVs' and claimed 'nobody will ever know'.

We're both sad and shocked I think. DD said to me it feels like a 'slap in the face' for those students who REALLY got a first class degree, and we feel sad that Jen thinks nothing of her lying and deception.

Nothing can/will be done, but just wondered what folk thought?

*not her real name!

Not has good experiences with people who casually lie about things when there’s no real need to. They’ve turned out to be to be quite prolific liars without a moral conscience. I get it. It’s an ick as the kids say.

Anyone who's saying "Oh, nobody ever checks!" might like to Google Alison Ryan, who was sacked after 13 days as Man Utd's communications director when they found she had lied about having a First from Cambridge and a Distinction in a postgrad legal qualification. She had a 2:1 from Cambridge and I think a pass in the postgrad, so it's not that she wasn't clever - just that she wasn't as clever as she claimed to be. I knew her very slightly through work at the time and I remember how shocked we all were.

I’m so surprised to hear people saying ‘most employers check’ - not once in my life have I had to provide certification for my degree, a levels or GCSEs! It’s never been asked about, even in jobs where certification was required.

I’m really surprised that so many people are saying it’ll be required, maybe I’ve just been fortunate because Christ knows where all my paperwork is…

At my graduation the students with first class degrees (only eight or so) were called up separately first (and named in the accompanying pamphlet/schedule) then everyone else was called in no particular order. The pamphlet just stated how many of each class there was - there was only one 3rd class out of 200 students so I can see why they wouldn't have wanted to humiliate him/her!

Re the original question, I had to provide my degree certificate for approx two thirds of the (law) grad jobs I applied for. I haven't had to for any subsequent jobs. If 'Jen' is applying for graduate jobs/training schemes the chances are she'll be asked to show evidence. Given that a 2:1 is good anyway - and enough to apply to pretty much any grad job - I think she'd be a total fool to risk it. The dishonesty would be instant grounds for rejection. Some industries are also quite small and people do talk... the last thing she wants is a negative rep at this stage!

There are quite a lot of employers that might not mind the different between a 2:1 and a 1st but WILL very much mind about the lying. Most companies really don't want to employ liars.

Weighing up
2:1 vs 2:2
&
liar vs honest - I’d say honesty more impt

You've been fortunate.

You don't know at what point your employer could check e.g. making redundancies so they can save money and sack you instead, you are dealing with clients in regulated industries.

I am now employed on a US contract at a very high level in my industry and when I went for my visa application, I had to provide my degree certificate along with loads of other paperwork.

They’re not relevant to my job now so I’m okay but I hadn’t considered needing them ever again. I guess I’ll need to try and hunt them down if I ever decide to move on!

I must have just been lucky that no one has ever asked to see them because I genuinely have no idea where any of the certification is. I sort of feel like after someone has had x amount of experience who gives a shit about the GCSEs but I guess some companies do

A degree in [insert random subject] isn't relevant to most jobs once you have experience however the fact you have a degree often is.

It's not just some companies - it's governments who want to check that you have the qualifications you claim to have (and I have over 30 years experience) - because it speaks to trustworthiness and honesty.

I also lost my degree certificate - getting a duplicate was a palaver!

I guess she could amend her LI profile in the future and hope nobody notices the amendment. But if she's actually putting that on CVs and formal applications that's really not smart. I'm very involved in our grad recruitment process - and I know for a fact that we ask for evidence of qualifications for both degree and degree apprentice roles. It's as much about honesty as anything else. Anyone who can't produce evidence is given a deadline to do so, and then off boarded unless they can prove extenuating circumstances as to why they cannot prove their highest level qualification (we don't care about anything before that highest level) and have a work history and technical ability that suggests they are telling the truth. Those situations are very rare though.

Not always. A former colleague of mine claimed to speak fluent Spanish on his CV. Our boss who interviewed him is a native Spanish speaker and didn't think to check!

So yes, infuriatingly, some people do get away with this sort of shit, and worse.

But enough employers check up that it's a risky move.

I once temped for a company that checked up on people's CVs. Orange flag for anyone who had slightly lied about dates to cover up a gap in employment. Red flag for anyone outright lying about their qualifications or work history.

Nobody cares whether you got a 2:1 or a 1st, but they will care if you are a liar.

It's not just some companies - it's governments who want to check that you have the qualifications you claim to have

what on earth does that mean?! Governments plural? Why does the government care what you say on LinkedIn - unless you’re planning on working for them.

What governments? How do you mean? Surely the government have a record of my schooling? Why would they ask me for it? Why would they even know what I was claiming I had? I’m confused!

If you are in a regulated profession then dishonesty is a striking off offence because it speaks to character and is seen as something that cannot be remediated. It is the intention to deceive that would make me not want to employ or be in an intimate relationship with that person. If your dd is upset by the dishonesty then that tells her something about herself and her values and what might be important to her in a partner.

@Soldieringnonosoldiershere and @SpiderPlanter - if you clicked on quote history you would see I was specifically talking about getting a visa to work overseas. I've done it several times in several countries. In every instance I had to provide evidence of any qualification cited on my visa application.

Oh apologies, I’m with you now.

Although that is a rabbit hole for another night - and maybe somebody who works in education knows this. You have a few unique identifiers when it comes to records - your NHS number, your national insurance humber - which allows linkage. Does that exist in education? I actually have no idea at all - which is maybe why you need to provide proof in some roles?

Some the companies I've worked for like you to have LinkedIn and other social media profiles so you can support the marketing team by commenting/copying their posts.

So it's not a good idea to openly lie on your profile about your degree classification.

Wow. You’re well over the top. You’d think she was hiding babies, instead of just boosting her degree on LinkedIn. Give your head a wobble and calm down.

jesus Christ what am I reading? What’s wrong with you?

It is indeed an economy sized can of worms. The drama. The poor unfortunate should probably hand herself in.

18 years in post.
Got a promotion in the SAME organisation.

Had to show my certificates AND prove my identity

Thanks to what happened to the Windrush Generation and what a recruiter asked me in my early 20s I can give you an answer.

There were no universal education identifiers in use for those under 16. The Windrush Generation were asked by the Home Office to prove they were in the UK in the 60s and 70s. Contacting their old schools/educational authorities and getting records was one way.

I was asked by a recruiter to prove I was at school in the early 90s at the beginning of the 00s. I then spoke to someone at my former secondary school to see what records they had of me. (In the end I didn't need the information as the end company pointed out that academic years are September to August and as I was 16 or under I wasn't actually missing dates.)

Your school records are destroyed after a number of years so unless there is a teacher alive who taught you and remembers having you in their class you have no real proof that you were actually at that particular school.

However if you were ever at some event at school and the local press sent a photographer to cover the event then you would be in a newspaper archive. This is how at least one person in the Windrush Generation got to stay in the UK. (Unfortunately the BBC didn't save or destroyed a lot of it's output so if you were on a TV program with your class there its rare to find a record of it.)

Your exam results are recorded by the exam board so you can get copies decades later, however until this century it was common for people to leave school without sitting and passing any exams.

BTW my NHS number has changed at least 3 times since I was born. I remember my mum showing me my red book before I went to uni and my NHS number being different. Then at some point in the 00s I got told by a GPs I practice I changed to that the numbers had been updated so the medical card with it was wrong. However I know that my paper notes haven't been lost as a medical practitioner was looking through they when she was looking up my medical history.