Missed Durham offer - is it worth calling?

[RightWhoWantsABoiledEgg]

DD had a deferred offer at Durham for English. Offer was AA plus A star in English. Results were AAB, but importantly, she didnt get an A star in English Lit and Durham offer was lost.

There were reasons for this slightly lower performance (although not the B and we may ask for a remark). She was poorly for 2/3 of the exams for one subject (GP visit and medication confirms this) - had an A star for the first paper and As for the ones where she was poorly. Special consideration was meant to be requested, but don’t know if it was done.

More importantly, for English, there was an issue with the biggest mark question on one of the papers. The school does a very unusual combination of books, that very few schools opt for, for the comparative paper. In the exam, the big mark question had no relevant theme to compare the books by. All students were confused and said they’d had to wing it. School never reached out about it. Either the school messed up and missed a theme, or the exam board messed up in failing to ensure a theme that was relevant to this combination was included. An A in these circumstances seems pretty decent.

This is by way of asking if it is worth her calling Durham up to discuss and explain? Will they even entertain excuses and discuss a deferred offer? As the school hasn’t ever addressed the question issue (it is a very high performing grammar school so may not want to appear lacking), should she approach the school first to ascertain if they would support what she is saying about the problem with the question?

She worked so hard and feels like she has failed. She could resit and is considering this, but would Durham even consider her next year as she has failed to meet their standard once already?

Hi, OP -

I am sorry for your DD’s Durham rejection. Here are my thoughts as a former Russell Group admissions tutor.

@Rubberfrog is right: as DD wants a deferred place, you and she have time to reflect. Because the priority now is firming up the 2024 entries, everyone probably prefers this anyway.

As I think you mentioned but for others who may be interested, any action at Durham or elsewhere should be initiated by DD. Admissions tutors always notice whether students or their parents are making contact and when decisions have a discretionary component this can matter. Email is actually best, as it is easiest and significant statements must be followed up in writing anyway. One can contact anyone in Admissions (preferably within the School or Dept) and they will route the email to the best person

I am glad for the deferral, as MH should always come first! Also DD’s plans sound good. I wish her the best of luck

The reality is that at Durham DD missed the offer by 2 grades. As she is a Home student, I don’t think she has much to gain by following up on this. The possible exception is if there is a strong case to be made for Mit Circs. Usually the most successful cases are put by the applicant’s school rather than the family, FWIW.

(Also FWIW I don’t like the double standard for Clearing that we are seeing everywhere at all, but then I don’t like the financial crisis the universities are facing one bit, either. The whole thing is a nightmare. Durham in particular is not in great shape.)

RH looks like an excellent choice. So does Kings, but the standard offer is 3 A’s; however the offer for Comparative Lit is AAB (I did not see a language requirement). I am also very impressed by Lancaster, which counts as RG+, is collegiate, and has several other similarities to Durham with a better rep for pastoral care. Their reputation in terms of both Teaching and Learning and Research is really shooting up this century.

Given DD’s aspirations, does she see advantages to being in or near to London?

The suggestion by PP that if DD has her heart set on Durham she consider some Joint Hons programmes with lower entry requirements is good.

Again, very best wishes to DD

I'm trying to work out RHBNC! Royal Holloway?

There will be a symbol next to her results on her slip if special consideration was processed.

Re the niche exam question, this does happen. An examiner shouldn't mark for what is not there but with what the student has done. Focus on the question asked is only one bullet point. Bringing down NEA marks is relatively common and might suggest the school had a slightly rose tinted view of their cohort's ability or missed an AO out/ downplayed it - affecting marks awarded

I know Durham is beloved on MN but, honestly, for English, it's not the be all and end all. ( inserts deliberate Shakespeare quote). Many excellent places to choose from on AAB.

On the phoning up issue, it won't do any harm. It'll probably not work but why not at least say you tried...

Also....re the school 'asking for rationale' , that's a rather odd thing for them to say. They will have a moderator report.

Is 20,000 students small? And only 30% are from private schools. When we went to the offer holder day there seemed a really nice group of people we met, and I've no idea what kind of school they came from nor care - believe it or not privately educated people can be just as nice as anyone! And quite a few state school kids can be bullies! I hate the way MN perpetuates this stereotype.
I know a lad, yep privately educated, who was a Hatfield and left about three years ago. Rather than being a rah rah rugby lout he is a lovely sensitive man who made great friends there.
I'm sure Durham, like any university, is a different and not always happy experience for many. I've heard of people who loved it and those that didn't. And not surprisingly, the same about many other universities, whether it be Oxford or Oxford Brookes. I didn't particularly enjoy my university years, but it was a means to an end.
OP she should apply next cycle grades in hand. She can focus on herself in the meantime, mature a bit, get some experience. She may even change her mind about her degree!

The issue with the niche question is that none of the themes they were asked to compare the texts for had been taught/applied. So, while I understand that examiners will mark what’s there, it won’t have been her best work because none of the themes applied and she was working on the hoof. It’s frustrating because this comparative question has been her strongest throughout. She should have been a clear A star, whereas she was a solid A.

Also, Piggywaspushed, I can’t see any symbol on her results sheet, anywhere, which I expected to, just to show it had been applied. I know it won’t make any significant difference to the outcome, but it’s more about being sure the school did what they said they would at this stage.

I’m sorry your DD didn’t get her place and missed her grades. It’s really tough for the young people. I think it never hurts to enquire by email or phone. Even now when Durham clearing has closed, you never know if your contact will land just at the point someone pulls out. But I’d make contact not expecting a positive response.

Re the issues you say your DD has had with the teaching and exams, Schools not teaching the full spec is specifically stated as not grounds for special consideration. Unfortunately, the experience and quality of teaching students does get, differs from place to place.

Only the school will be able to tell you if special consideration was applied for for other reasons. They will be able to access info to see if it was applied. You will have to contact them to enquire about this.

Issues about exams and requests for mitigating circumstances have to be made by schools to the exam board during exams or immediately after. They will often contact the unis too. There are forms on uni websites for candidates to send info themselves and the forms ask if the exam Baird have been contacted and if not, why not. There are deadlines for these forms (usually end of July at latest). It doesn’t help now, but the onus has to be on parents to send info to schools at the right time, and to then check with the school that they have made requests for special consideration at that time too. After results is really too late for these things. I know that’s not what you’d like to hear and I’m sure lots of people are (often rightly) feeling aggrieved in these days after exams about the ‘bad hand’ their DC got dealt via health or family circumstances or teaching or all kinds of other things, which impacted exam performance. It’s tough when young people are disappointed and it’s often not easy to understand what happened. Some students like to get their scripts back so they can see, for some kind of closure on it. It’s such early days still and v raw, but they do move on quite quickly in most cases. People report it all feeling like the end of the world but Path B appearing and being good - even if this weekend isn’t the time to be able to see that, esp for 18 year olds.

Hope Path B becomes clearer for you. Once the new weeks starts you will have the option to contact Durham and the school and anyone else. Sometimes it helps to do that so you feel all avenues have been explored. It can be upsetting on top of everything else, but if you make those contacts with low expectations, any positives to emerge are a bonus.

Really hope it all works out.

My granddaughter has graduated from Durham. She loved it there and had a supportive time. I would speak to the school and then Durham

It's always worth calling (her - not you!) as long as she realises it is a very long shot. She can explain the illness and GP verification.

If it is Durham she's set her heart on, rather than the course, she maybe considered for a comparative lit course. A friend's son did that (not at Durham but similar high ranked RG uni) when he didn't get the grade for English. he ended up adoring the course and was so glad he got to study world lit not just English.

That is revolting. At least Durham is looking into it with plans to boot them out. Warwick pretended nothing had happened when a similar attitude to women was revealed there a few years ago.

That article is also 4 years old.

TheSquareMile - her ultimate aim is publishing

Has she looked at the salaries? Prepare her for a life of penury.

What exam board is this, and what are the texts?

I have only seen the symbol from my end on results so it's possible it doesn't show upon what you see. But, as you correctly say, it wouldn't make enough difference .

I'm sorry to hear about her eating struggles .

DD was at Durham and didn't come across any of the behaviour referenced in the papers even though she was there then. I asked her once what proportion of her friends went to private school (she didn't) and she looked totally blank and said the subject had never come up.
She did benefit from the smallness too.

Durham's not the easiest admissions department to deal with.
I think for your dd's sake, suggest she phones and asks, but not to expect anything from it. She might be lucky and get through to someone with authority and a bit of sympathy who is impressed by her persistence.
I think if she has tried that, then she can feel she's done everything and can move on.
Spend the year looking at the other place and finding out things she likes about it.

I've known very few people who have gone to their insurance, who haven't said they were glad they did go there. I'm pretty certain for almost everyone, that if they'd got into their firm, they'd have been equally happy and thankful they went there, but even those who were initially disappointed, normally fairly quickly discover their new place is great too.
However the main one I know who didn't, I know they spent the entire time comparing the new place negatively to their first choice, and I think that really effected how they settled etc. So the key for her is to see the positives of the insurance and look forward to starting there. Could you do an overnight stay perhaps, and look round and find places she likes?

Don't rely on an email. I have worked Admission for years and you have to call and asap. It is a mad scramble for places and they will go fast with it being Durham. Every year we had people who would email and all the spaces were already gone.

Although if it is deferred entry it might be ok- sorry I missed that!

But the DD wants a deferred place. That makes a big difference

I apologise for missing your updated post, @CatWithNoTeeth !

I think she has had a lucky escape tbh.

My dd has had a terrible, terrible time at Durham. She left in February of her second year and is starting again from yr 1 in September. The culture is absolutely toxic, sexual harassment is rife, dd was horribly bullied by her housemates, she was drugged and either sexually assaulted or raped by another student (police case open) and then dismissed by other students as 'over reacting'. Dd wasn't even the person that called the police and it took dd from 2am until 2pm to be judged as coherent enough to give informed consent for a rape suite. Added to that DD has some SEN, that were completely ignored by some lecturers, despite having a learning support plan in place. She was told to read a text aloud in a seminar despite being diagnosed with dyslexia and auditory processing disorder, as well as anxiety and depression.

Added to that the cost of accommodation is horrendous. Dd was paying 184 per week for 52 weeks for a damp infested, freezing cold filthy room in a shared house.

There are much nicer universities that will be a supportive, nurturing environment for your dd. Mine is going to uni of Sheffield. I've just completed a degree there, and doing an MA next year. Obviously I am older so limited experience of some of the experiences younger students will have, but the culture and support is amazing.

Haha, it doesn’t surprise me, but the flip side is my DS (GCSEs next week!) has chosen his A levels based on them helping him get into banking and making lots of money. I can’t tell you how disappointed I was to hear him say that. He’s engaging, witty, charming and wonderful company and could do so many things. Chasing the money isn’t what I envisaged for him. If publishing doesn’t bring in mega bucks, but is something DD loves, then I’m all for it. If she hates is, that’s a different story! Walk away and try something else!

After 25 years in publishing/content I wish I'd thought a bit more about earning a good living rather than a 'nice' job.

DD’s ultimate aim is to write (obviously, not loads of money in that either, unless you’ve been on TV first!), but that would be a fair way in her future. Thanks to this thread though, we’ve looked for and found a series of Creative Writing courses she could do in her year off, which will help with short term and long term goals.

Texts are A Doll’s House and The Merchant's tale and prologue. DD was told by the teacher that it is a rare combination. While they do compare well (apparently), none of the themes they covered were in the question. What I don’t know is whether this was the school’s oversight in teaching or the exam board failing to recognise those themes don’t compare for that text combination.

@RightWhoWantsABoiledEgg

Is it the OCR A Level in English Literature, OP?

www.ocr.org.uk/Images/171200-specification-accredited-a-level-gce-english-literature-h472.pdf

Ooh, Chaucer interesting...

This isn't an exam board I recognise. I've never really heard of texts just being taught through themes. Really texts should be taught so students can write with knowledge and application about them, including language, structure, contexts and responses, no matter what the question, albeit with an overarching awareness of key themes and how they are treated.

But those may be an exam board specific thing.